Shoeless?

[Twingirl]

http://www.wildabouthooves.com.au/pages/roystancarr.htm

Thoughts?

[Tucumcari]

Many people in CA are training barefoot. Sometimes all of the way around, sometimes just the fronts or just the hinds. There have been several instances of horses racing without shoes. I *think* Christopher Paasch ran a first time starter at Del Mar without shoes and it won??
Also at the time of entry it needs to be stated as an equipment change.
A close friend of mine recently had a problem with a horse that had run barefoot in a previous start. At the receiving barn they checked the shoes and there were none. The stewards hummed and hawed saying that they need to be notified at the time of entry, and the horse ought to be scratched. Which is silly because the horse did run barefoot last time out, the equipment change was noted then. It was not an equipment change in the second start.
Anyway the point of this is that we are doing this here as well.

[louis finochio]

50=+ years ago there was a strike by the horseman, as the farrier's hiked their price to shoe a tb from 12.00 to 18.00, Rex Ellsworth took all the shoes off his tb & ran them with no shoes, they won anyway.

[imnumberjuan]

had a maiden rub our faces in it shoeless Saturday afternoon @ Woodbine..

[Twingirl]

had a maiden rub our faces in it shoeless Saturday afternoon @ Woodbine..

Who was that? Race #?

How interesting!

[Heidilady]

The more I hear about it the more interesting a movement it is. I understand that blood flow to hooves increases when horses race barefoot and often soundness issues thought to lead to retirement can be corrected when the horse runs without shoes (even laminitis sufferers benefit since the blood flow goes up). The side effect of course being that the temperature in the feet is higher so you gotta know that or you might freak out and think something's wrong.

They can actually keep going when normally they'd just be drugged til their body gave out and god knows what happened to them to get them to leave the track. Let's face it, nature meant for them to be running on those hooves without any assistance. I wonder what would've happened for Big Brown if he'd run with no shoes. I heard he got hurt after working with none on the front feet but shoes on the back. Notice he grabbed himself from behind.

[imnumberjuan]

I am pretty sure it was Aster in the 8th:

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pd ... 08CAN8.pdf

My associates and I scoffed at going shoeless being the answer (thats why it stuck out )

[ratherrapid]

the words "stupid" and "why" come to mind. there are exhaustive shoeless debates at www.horseshoes.com.

while, needless to say, you can run on certain surfaces, a shoeless talented horse against lesser, and these are documented at the google, the consistent thing you notice about these "winners" is they're never heard from again. artificial surfaces presents another question, although I'm still trying to figure why anyone would consider running a thoroughbred shoeless. if only the horses could talk.

[pokeyman]

the words "stupid" and "why" come to mind. there are exhaustive shoeless debates at www.horseshoes.com.

while, needless to say, you can run on certain surfaces, a shoeless talented horse against lesser, and these are documented at the google, the consistent thing you notice about these "winners" is they're never heard from again. artificial surfaces presents another question, although I'm still trying to figure why anyone would consider running a thoroughbred shoeless. if only the horses could talk.

I don't think it is very nice to call someone's opinion stupid just because it differs from yours.

The average TB starts 7 times. Shoes cause lameness and breakdowns and do not allow the horses hoof to expand. Thus, blood flow is restricted and the feet become numb and painful. The concussive force of shoes is 7 times greater than a barefoot hoof. Thus, the added force causes fractures, bows, and many other injuries.

We ran our Arabian barefoot. While all the shod horses around us were breaking down, he sailed through training.

They told us he would have no traction. However, he was the first out of the gate in every race.

They told us his feet would wear down to nothing. However, he grew a hoof faster with the concussion and needed even more trims.

They told us he would tear his stifles to shreds but he never had one hind end issue.

He went on to win a MSW, 2 allowance races, and finish 2nd in 2 stakes. We sold him after his 2nd stakes race.

They brought him back the next season with shoes and he never won again.......

BTW- He also ran drug free and had 24/7 turnout while we owned him.

[spex4me]

I'm training my little ding bat shoeless. I have 2 sets of plastic (composite ) shoes I ordered sitting in a box if I still plan to train on hard/rocky surfaces come late winter/early spring. Right now I have lucked out because I have close to 3 miles of nice field to let her roll in.

I have been digging into this for months now. Hence why I ordered the plastic shoes. While the jury is out or tending to lean towards not actually racing shoeless in most opinions, I do see more and more at least letting yearlings break and train as long as possible shoeless. The hoof is constantly changing as a young horse is maturing and leaving shoes off at least until 2 to 2 1/2 seems to be favorable. I honestly did not even think about baby hooves becoming adult hooves in it's entirety until I read an article in TT about a month or two ago.

IMO I see no harm if your horse can handle it. I would definitely think being a tad more diligent about your horses leg and hoof examinations would be called for . Genetics and environmental elements will definitely be more of a factor in going shoeless also.

I think I should start snapping pictures of my own hoof 'testing'.

[Tucumcari]

Ah the plastic are latest and greatest not barefoot crap!
Excellent!
Good people are doing this as well. Yay Spex!!!

[ratherrapid]

Pokey, fact or opinion, i'd say it's a close question. i like that you turned your horse out. Kudos It was an Arabian though, horse of a different color as to hooves.

Spex, one bit of experience on "plastic" shoes. My first horse ever, 3 weeks later I applied a new plastic shoe, the "Swedes Plate". Swedes proved a little too high and thick. Horse bowed all on his own in his paddock next day after application. Burns polyflex, if you spent the $400 for those, good deal. Otherwise, be careful. It's hard to help 'em with shoes. all sorts of mechanics involved. the good stuff has mostly been invented.

As to youngsters, yup, u have to be careful with shoes and growing hoofs to avoid contracted heels. i have two solutions to this for shoes--1. trim the frogs to leave as long as possible to achieve ground contact. 2. leave lots of mud around the paddock, again, mud in hoofs means ground contact that will provide frog pressure and hence correct heel growth.

as to barefoot and TBs generally, varies with surface and hoof. some definite's though--and, spex I'll think u report the same after watching about a yr.--much stronger push off with hinds with shoes, and better traction all around with shoes. I call shoeless with TBs stupid because I would decline to force a TB into speed without shoes. They're unable to tell you when they're about to fracture coffins, etc. You'll quit training them shoeless when you begin to notice the bruising. Depends somewhat on the surface, though, rider weight and skill, etc.

[mary]

Didn't Desert Stormer win the BC Sprint shoeless?

[ratherrapid]

i'll take a wild guess that this never happened.

[pokeyman]

Didn't Desert Stormer win the BC Sprint shoeless?

I think he was wearing "No-Vibes".