Finish the sentence please...

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:51 pm

tiznow

rudydee · Postby **rudydee** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:28 pm

Tiznow is listed as standing for 75K in 2009

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:18 pm

One last wrinkle if you don't mind:

"If I were breeding to RACE, the sire that seems to throw consistent, TWO-TURN, classic distance type runners (still under 50k), is ____________________________."

spex4me · Postby **spex4me** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:57 pm

you should start a new thread with this , I look forward to the thoughts on it.

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:18 am

Pleasant Tap is number one in this category, followed by Sky Classic and Lemon Drop Kid. Others that qualify using average winning distance of foals are Appitude, Quiet American, Arch, Rahy, Gulch, Slew City Slew, Repent and Dixieland Band.

Active sires that have sired at least one male North American classic winner and have a stud fee of 50K or less are Gulch, Quiet American, Holy Bull, Thunder Gulch, Northern Afleet, Cryptoclearance and Grindstone. Tiznow is now at 75K so he is excluded from the list.

I would think that Pleasant Tap has the most to offer for the fee.

DDT

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:33 pm

okay no tiznow, I would go with Indian charlie

LB · Postby LB » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:58 pm

bdw0617 wrote:okay no tiznow, I would go with Indian charlie

He also stands for $75,000.

At least you're consistent. :wink:

Ill-bred · Postby **Ill-bred** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:05 pm

While I kinda like Sky Classic, keep in mind all his success has come on turf.

I don't believe he has sired a single graded winner on dirt or synth, and definitely no Grade 1 types.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:13 pm

DDT wrote:Pleasant Tap is number one in this category, followed by Sky Classic and Lemon Drop Kid. Others that qualify using average winning distance of foals are Appitude, Quiet American, Arch, Rahy, Gulch, Slew City Slew, Repent and Dixieland Band.

I would think that Pleasant Tap has the most to offer for the fee.

DDT

A comment on Pleasant Tap--when you look at him, you have to take Tap Dance City out of the equation, as that one horse won nearly $10 million all by himself in Japan and skews Pleasant Tap's numbers heavily upward. Without Tap Dance City, Pleasant Tap's average/median earnings are $82435/$21005. If you take away Sky Classic's highest earning foal, Sky Conqueror, it only shifts Sky Classic's average earnings down by about $3000.

With Tap Dance City out of the equation and all else being equal, I'd give Sky Classic the edge between the two of them, with more stakes horses (15% SW and SP vs 13%), higher median earnings ($37,500 vs $21,005), greater percentage runners from foals (82% vs 74%) and greater percentage winners from foals (62% vs 50%). In Pleasant Tap's favour, Sky Classic foals strongly skew to turf, whereas Pleasant Taps are more likely to be versatile.

That said, I think they're both good value for a $12,500 fee.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:08 pm

LB wrote:
bdw0617 wrote:okay no tiznow, I would go with Indian charlie

He also stands for $75,000.

At least you're consistent.

seriously? man... this is tough. they must have just gotten their fees raised. I remember tiznow was at 40 and indian charlie was right around there too.

Okay let me think.. no way on earth IC @ 75k BTW.. you are in pulpit/el prado range then which is a notch above where he is.

okay, at the price, i'd actually go with Fu Peg at 30k. I like the fact that he can throw turf hroses that can get a route of ground that can run on any class level.

mary · Postby **mary** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:56 am

Not knowing what mare you are referring to but would you consider grass breeding? Suances and Deputy Commander have done well with the Turn Down The Heat female family line and Decarchy is under the radar - he has a nice look about him on the picture posted on this website.

mary · Postby **mary** » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:45 pm

Classic distance, you want classic distance??

Try Skip Away for 10k!

Altanbarr · Postby **Altanbarr** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:09 am

Regarding Pleasant Tap, I do not think it is fair to take a horse's top earner out of the analysis even if the earings are somewhat inflated because they came in restricted races. How would you account for all the state-bred earnings for sires? This is a jackpot game. If a sire produces a jackpot horse, especially when he produces more than one (see Premium Tap, David Junior, Tiago), the sire deserves credit.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:34 am

Numbers are, as they say, numbers. However, in much statistical analysis, they would remove the top and bottom 10%, to come up with a new number. I wonder how that would flush out?

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:36 am

If you're still staying away from Storm Cat lines but don't mind some Storm Bird blood Thunder Gulch can get a real nice two turn horse at a very affordable price. He just needs a bit of size in the mare.