Toe Grabs

[UmmYeah]

The recent Blood-Horse has an article that references a "commpelling" PPT presentation by Bill Casner, regarding the role of toe grabs in catastrophic injuries. With a bit of googling, i was able to find the PPT. Pretty compelling stuff, indeed. Here's the link:
http://www.grayson-jockeyclub.org/resources/toe_grabs.ppt
It's over 7 MB, so it will take a while to load on slower connections.

How likely is it that other jurisdictions will follow the CHRB's lead and ban high toe grabs?

[ratherrapid]

the compelling aspect are the inaccuracies and disingenuousness of the website. u'd think graysson jockey club and bill casner, whoever he is--one of the anti-grab crusaders without a doubt--might at least get equine footfall correct.

someone please correct me in the event im mistaken:

the overwhelming anti-grab scientific evidence consists of excactly two studies--one early '90s by a texas vet with an agenda; the other early2000s at UC Davis where the lady vet manfully concedes at the end of her study that her (beyond the shadow of a doubt) attributing equine injuries to toe grabs is "inconclusive" due to other injury causation factors--still, she says, it's the grabs. if there are other studies maybe someone would tell us what they are.

problems:
1. different style shoes front and rear make horses uncomfortable in their stride--take a close look at street sense--full toes rear, low toes front.
2. thoro'bred racing regular grabs fronts imo probably a tad long on most surfaces--nice if they'd provide a shoe with grab length somewhere between low and regular toe. low toes are too low if you want same style on all four legs.

[Sylvie Hebert]

more studies just do a search...(and toe grabs are in part responsible for bleeding...) get the book 'racehorses at risk'...it is a good start and read some of Tom Ivers works(OH my God will i be lapidated for suggesting this?)Toe grabs are evil.. sure i am a barefoot advocate but if you insist on shoes at least be sensible about it.By the way i am also a licensed horseshoer...

[ratherrapid]

ms.herbert, ur post sounds as if u've already made up your mind on toes grabs and horse shoes. If you are correct and toe grabs and horse shoes are evil, let's ban them. But, to date, toe grabs have yet to be banned anywhere except on grass.

For myself I'd prefer a little science instead of religion on the subject. And, personally, I'd like to be educated as to why people such as yourself and almost every veterinarian but almost zero trainers continue to insist that toe grabs cause injuries when one of the two studies that at least give lip service to honesty states that this is inconclusive. so, if u do have additional studies (other than the two mentioned) would you post time,place, date, so we can look at them!

I'm presuming you know that Race Horses At Risk was written in 1989. Tom Ivers put out a lot of good stuff, but, doubt you'll find in any of the things he wrote that he advocated banning toe grabs (or, horseshoes for that matter.)

[fletch621]

Imagine, if you will, placing a toe grab on your shoes and walking around all day. Simple common sense makes it pretty obvious that it would lead to a lot of problems.

[Sylvie Hebert]

i suppose you did not read me well.i said and maintain toe grabs are evil...not shoes but if you push me i would choose barefoot over shoes(not just any way but the right trim,exercise,diet and all).as of T.Ivers go back to your reading he did say and advocates NO toe grabs and also stepper angles in front quote"if you must insist on toe grabs i would put them behind but avoid them in front".the front legs only role are to prevent the horse falling on his nose(balance but not grab the ground in fact if you study slow motion close-ups you will realise that the front foot slip and twist a bit ..) and they should get out of the way of the hind legs(the propulsion) as fast as possible(better and faster breakover).I worked with Tom from 1988,he was a genius...and all was science no religion or beliefs.I am not a cult member,i listen,observe,experiment...no set beliefs except for "Preserve and Enhance".....

[winds]

I'm not a big believer in toe grabs either. We always put low grabs both front and back when I worked for Charlsie. I always trained my horses on the farm with Queens Plates.

I've spoken with many vets and they hate toe grabs as do horseshoers. Trainers are usually the last to change anything unless it's a new wonder drug that will make their horses run faster.

wind

[Tucumcari]

I'm not a HUGE fan either I prefer a level grip, but on these slippery synthetic surfaces you need a regular toe behind and atleast a low toe in front... you want to tear up a horse train on this shit barefoot.

[winds]

Now that's something I haven't done yet is train on the synthetic surface. Thanks for bringing that up, I'll have to investigate it.

wind

[Sylvie Hebert]

Hey guys what do you know... after all this time...toe grabs are being outlawed...Hourra!And steroids too....Too bad you can't see this Tom...R.I.P.

[feartinybubbles]

ANyone at the track who has ever bothered to look at a shod horse with toe grabs standing on the tarmac knows why they are bad or detrimental. they raise the toe and it does not take a village idiot to imagine what this does to P1 P2 and P3. I will celebrate with great vigor for the ponies when this barbaric practice is banned!

[louis finochio]

if a tb is of crooked underpining, its a death sentance to use toe grabs.