Stardom Bound

Vindicated · Postby **Vindicated** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:26 am

Okay who has read the TT article and ended up scratching their heads over the last paragraph?

Poor girl-she deserves a better owner....

ratherrapid · Postby **ratherrapid** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:24 pm

deja vu all over again. this is where racing needs someone in a position of authority that can step in. luckily Stardom Bound is currently in Frankel's barn. he'll protect her. unknown what happens when McGlaughlin get's a hold of her.

el camino · Postby **el camino** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:34 pm

I wasn't sure what you were refering to, was it this quoute?

"I don't see why she wouldn't go on. I don't know what else she has to prove against the girls,” Iavarone said. “I'll talk it over with [trainer] Bobby [Frankel], but I think that's what we want. I think that's what racing wants.”

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:30 pm

unknown what happens when McGlaughlin get's a hold of her.

Not going to McGlaughin. She's going to Dutrow when she ships back east.

Vindicated · Postby **Vindicated** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:37 pm

I know...Poor girl...
She's got an idiot for an owner and she is leaving the saftey of Frankel's barn for Dutrow...

Hotwalker · Postby **Hotwalker** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:31 pm

it's a bad idea. Even Rags To Riches wasn't the same physically after the Belmont. What's wrong with staying within the division? Does anyone think less of Zenyatta because she races in her division?

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:36 pm

it's a bad idea. Even Rags To Riches wasn't the same physically after the Belmont

I totally agree. She has done so much thus far. Too feed her to the boys this spring will likely take her over the soundness edge.

Heidilady · Postby **Heidilady** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:14 pm

Are y'all talking about McLaughlin? I have no idea who this McGlaughlin person is.

zinn21 wrote:
it's a bad idea. Even Rags To Riches wasn't the same physically after the Belmont

I totally agree. She has done so much thus far. Too feed her to the boys this spring will likely take her over the soundness edge.

Actually I disagree, she's in a better position to handle them now rather than after the Belmont when they're more mature, and at the moment we have more chaff than when in some of these races. Want to pick up G1s against boys? Got a tough talented filly? Now's the time. Some of these colts are mentally a little screwy and are ripe for plucking. Eight Belles may've tripped over her own two feet (and that's not coming from me, I'm pretty sure Rick Porter said she had a habit of doing that in many races due to her stride when slowing down at the end of races) but you can't say she wasn't better than 18 other colts capable of making the field included graded winners. She broke down because she had her normal stumble pulling up + being particularly drained cuz, heck, it's the Derby.

Stardom Bound is arguably better. Plus if she runs well in the SA Derby, they catch less crap for putting her in the Kentucky Derby. They can say 'well she did it before' whereas sometimes it feels like owners are overreaching without proof.

And it's not really about a soundness edge so much as when her cycle might come up right? I mean her skeletal system doesn't give a crap about the gender of the horses next to her. You run and it requires X amount of effort. She's better than most or all of the ones she'd face if she's on her A game. If her cycle comes up though and she goes off form in the Derby, people might blame her ability when really, it's hormones. At least that's what people with more experience than me have told me in general about fillies and the Derby trail. I'd argue that's the real reason you have a harder time getting fillies to go through all 3 races. You never know when something's going to flare up and don't many mares get put on steroids to stop that very thing, thus having trouble conceiving afterwards?

Playwithfire · Postby **Playwithfire** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:18 pm

I think its best to leave it up to Bobby Frankel. He's probably the best person to judge her readiness, ability, etc., given his experience and expertise. It sounds like he's trying to get the "Derby fever" owner in check a little.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101566.html

But hey, I would argue that if he thinks she can compete with the expected field in the Santa Anita Derby and win, its probably better to take one step up then trying to jump several levels of difficulty/complexity/unknown that would be required when going from the SA Oaks straight into the Kentucky Derby. Its on her home surface, which she obviously relishes, and against a few of the good horses she'd have to face in the Ky Derby.

Although they are great at purchasing good horses in training, I wouldn't hold too much stock in where IEAH wants to send their stock 3 months from now. A lot can happen.

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:29 am

I mean her skeletal system doesn't give a crap about the gender of the horses next to her.

I disagree, horses get hurt when asked to compete against tough horses. Competing against the boys is, undoubtedly, a tougher physical task especially at a distance. Stardom Bound is not a robust stout filly-she is on the slighter more narrow side. I don't think she will handle the boys nor will it bode well for her soundness wise-JMO.

reese · Postby **reese** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:23 pm

Playwithfire wrote:I think its best to leave it up to Bobby Frankel. He's probably the best person to judge her readiness, ability, etc., given his experience and expertise. It sounds like he's trying to get the "Derby fever" owner in check a little.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/101566.html

But hey, I would argue that if he thinks she can compete with the expected field in the Santa Anita Derby and win, its probably better to take one step up then trying to jump several levels of difficulty/complexity/unknown that would be required when going from the SA Oaks straight into the Kentucky Derby. Its on her home surface, which she obviously relishes, and against a few of the good horses she'd have to face in the Ky Derby.

Although they are great at purchasing good horses in training, I wouldn't hold too much stock in where IEAH wants to send their stock 3 months from now. A lot can happen.

I wondered, when I heard Ivarone blabbing after the race at SA Sunday what Frankel would have to say. Ivarone was stating "Stardom Bound was "going to the SA Derby".

I wonder if Ivarone tries to strong-arm Frankel like he did with Dutrow and Dmx, who will prevail. I think Stardom Bound should stay against fillies.
As posted above, Stardom Bound is not an amazon like ex. Zenyata or Winning Colors or Genuine Risk (who was slammed into)or
Rags to Riches who was a big filly, and Ruffian...

Ill-bred · Postby **Ill-bred** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:23 pm

I hope Zenyatta races in open company at least once this year.

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:04 am

Goldikova is not a physically impressive filly but she handled the older boys just fine in the BC Mile. If you want to be known as the best you have to race against the best. People remember Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, and Rags to Riches but who remembers the fillies who won the Oaks those years without looking it up? Iavarone may be an a?? but people who think second place is good enough never achieve greatness, and if only the a??es aspire to greatness then don't complain when all our great horses are owned by a??es.

Heidilady · Postby **Heidilady** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:18 pm

Dave C wrote:Goldikova is not a physically impressive filly but she handled the older boys just fine in the BC Mile. If you want to be known as the best you have to race against the best. People remember Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, and Rags to Riches but who remembers the fillies who won the Oaks those years without looking it up? Iavarone may be an a?? but people who think second place is good enough never achieve greatness, and if only the a??es aspire to greatness then don't complain when all our great horses are owned by a??es.

Let's not forget Megahertz. Lil miss half pint did some pretty impressive stuff despite being the Mugsy Bouges of turf racing. Wasn't she around 900lbs? She placed 2nd in a G1 against males and we all know how those things finish so to me you don't know that she wouldn't win more of them depending on luck, her jockey's timing, etc.

reese · Postby **reese** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:35 pm

Dave C wrote:Goldikova is not a physically impressive filly but she handled the older boys just fine in the BC Mile. If you want to be known as the best you have to race against the best. People remember Winning Colors, Genuine Risk, and Rags to Riches but who remembers the fillies who won the Oaks those years without looking it up? Iavarone may be an a?? but people who think second place is good enough never achieve greatness, and if only the a??es aspire to greatness then don't complain when all our great horses are owned by a??es.

Turf racing is NOT the same experience for fillies vs males on turf vs dirt.
Read Gary Steven book...he said, and I quote..."Winning Colors was bigger than all those colts and she intimidated them.
Guess you missed seeing the 1980 Preakness where Codero hit Genuine Risk so hard coming down the stretch, she went sideways and lsot.

Ruffian was an Amazon. as was Rags to Riches. Name fillies who beat colts on the dirt in G-1 route races the last 10 years. That IS the comparison here.