Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

[louis finochio]

Charlie Whitingham was a master at putting a solid foundation on his tbs. Charlie's brother Joe, who trained all of charlie's tbs at San Luis Rey downs galloped all of those tbs 120 days before they were sent to charlie.

Those tbs were ready to go into training when they were sent to Charlie. today most every trainer is in a hurry to get his tbs to the races without putting a foundation on them.

the 3-1 more crosses of Np to Ph. played a major part in WJ soundness to attain 79 career starts. today in hese matings of fashion its those 10-13 crosses of Ph. thats causing these injuries & breakdowns, as we are breeding for speed not soundness.

[louis finochio]

BENNY THE BULL (USA) dkb/br. C, 2003 DP = 3-0-3-0-0 (6) DI = 3.00 CD = 1.00 - 17 Starts, 9 Wins, 1 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $2,221,630

Owner: IEAH Stables
Breeder: Tamoka Farms Inc.
State Bred: FL
Winnings: 17 Starts: 9 - 1 - 2, $2,221,630

At 4:
Won Frank J. DeFrancis Memorial Dash S. (G1,LRL,6F), Iowa Sprint H. (PrM,6F)
2nd Forego H. (G1,SAR,7f)
At 5:
Won Dubai Golden Shaheen (UAE-G1,6F), True North H. (G2,Bel,6f), Smile Sprint H. (G2,CRC,6F), Sunshine Millions Sprint (GP,6F)

Foaled March 3, 2003.
$38K KEESEPT'04
Eclipse Champion Sprinter, 2008.

Benny The Bull is one of 8 Tb who are returning for another racing season, lets look at their pedigrees & see why these tbs are still racing & have avoided career ending injuries.

BENNY THE BULL br. C 2003
Lucky Lionel---Comet Cat, by Birdonthewire

BTB is a Non-Fashion Bred as he has 22 crosses NP---10 crosses PH. thru his sires & dams. BTB has an outcross pedigree with no duplication of inbreeding. BTB has 2-1 more NP than Ph. which gives him the hybrid vigor & soundness to race another season. Have a great year BTB.

[Shammy Davis]

WARNING: THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS THREAD, AS IT RELATES TO THE BREEDING OF AN INDIVIDUAL HORSE, ITS ANCESTRY, ITS PHYSICAL HEALTH, ITS ATHLETICISM, AND THE POTENTIAL FOR ITS PROGENY, IS UNSCIENTIFIC AND UNTESTED. ANY REPRESENTATION IN THIS THREAD BY THE ORIGINATOR TO THE CONTRARY IS ANATHEMA TO GOOD JUDGMENT AND COMMON SENSE WHEN BREEDING THOROUGHBRED RACEHORSES.

[Bunty Lawless]

i asked many vets today about the use of steroids in relation to side effects of early breakdowns. the vets said people that take steroids use 200 % higher dosage than are given our tbs.

steroids does not cause breakdowns, as the dosage is given in small amounts. many of those 2yr. olds are kept in small pens & are not let out for excerise to increase their bone density, then when they are whipped & driven 0ne-quarter mile in the sales preview, they encounter many physical problems, as those tbs are out of condition because they were not fit before the sales. this s what the vets told me.

A breakthrough admission that breakdowns are caused by what trainers do, not their breeding. Keeping horses in stalls, at the track, without proper conditioning is the very same thing as you just described above. Thank you!

[louis finochio]

ZENYATTA (USA) dkb/br. F, 2004 DP = 6-3-14-1-0 (24) DI = 2.00 CD = 0.58 - 9 Starts, 9 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $2,144,580

Owner: Mr. & Mrs. Jerome Moss
Breeder: Maverick Production, Limited
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 9 Starts: 9 - 0 - 0, $2,144,580

At 4:
Won Breeders' Cup Ladies' Classic (G1,9F), Apple Blossom H. (G1,8.5F), Vanity H. (G1,9F), Lady's Secret S. (G1,8.5F), El Encino S. (G2,8.5F), Milady H. (G2,8.5F), Clement L. Hirsch H. (G2,8.5F)

Foaled: April 1, 2004.
Trained by John Shireffs.
Eclipse Champion Older Female, 2008.

ZENYATTA br. F. 2004
Street Cry---Vertigineux, by Kris S.

Zenyatta is a Non-Fashion bred as she has 18 crosses NP---14 crosses Ph.
Z is inbred 4 X 5 Hail to Reason Turn-to branch Ph.---5 X 5 Nashua Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 5 Hoist the Flag Ribot branch Rabelais outcross.
Z Dam Vertigineux has 12 crosses NP---4 crosses Ph. which tilts the NP influence to a Non-Fashion bred.

[halfbridled]

i asked many vets today about the use of steroids in relation to side effects of early breakdowns. the vets said people that take steroids use 200 % higher dosage than are given our tbs.

steroids does not cause breakdowns, as the dosage is given in small amounts. many of those 2yr. olds are kept in small pens & are not let out for excerise to increase their bone density, then when they are whipped & driven 0ne-quarter mile in the sales preview, they encounter many physical problems, as those tbs are out of condition because they were not fit before the sales. this s what the vets told me.

Louis, I have to respectfully disagree. I have 10 years in as a nurse, i have worked with many joint injections and have knowledge of them in people..they are used on sick people, not marathon runners.

Joint injections and racing just don't mix imho..you are invading the joint capsule and injecting a drug straight into the synovial fluid and in close proximity to the bone and into the parts of the bone most prone to osteoporosis and microfracture. Associated risks are tendon rupture and a condition called AVN, avascular necrosis.
Vets make good money off this practice don't they?
Give a horse a six pack and a 5K claimer turns into an 8K claimer. I've heard of 2 year olds injected monthly - what is their longterm outlook?

I agree that inbreeding has its perils, especially if you don't have firsthand knowledge of the animals you are doubling up on. The breed lost a lot of male lines in the last half century which i believe is a big negative. I am sure there are some sires out there that really should be a couple ounces lighter if you get my drift..

But drugs have their share in this problem as do the actions of some select careless and heartless trainers who think nothing of running a horse straight into the ground.

[louis finochio]

GINGER TWIST (USA) ch. F, 2004 DP = 10-0-8-0-0 (18) DI = 3.50 CD = 1.11 - 14 Starts, 1 Wins, 5 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: $10,806

Owner: H. R. Gibson
Breeder: Jon Ambjor
State Bred: WA
Winnings: 14 Starts: 1 - 5 - 2, $10,806

Foaled April 3, 2004.
Euthanized after breaking down in a race at Portland Meadows, November 10, 2008.

GINGER TWIST Ch. F. 2004
Hes Tops---Peppermint Twist, by Candi's Gold

GT had 11 crosses Ph. out of a possible 16 thru her sires.
GT was inbred 4 X 4 Gold Digger mare by Nashua Nearco branch Ph---4 X 4 ND Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 X 5 Bold Ruler Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Natalma Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 Nearctic Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 X 5 Nashua Nearco branch Ph. All these stallions & mare descend from the sire line of Ph.
GT had 1 cross each of Turn-to---Native Dancer---HTR---RAN---Mr. P. all Ph sire line stallions which have produced the most injuries & breakdowns thru inbreeding in those Fashion-Bred matings.
GT is a Fashion Bred that was produced by a high risk mating for unsoundness.

[louis finochio]

Why do we have 20 vets on duty today to care for 1200 tbs ? when 30 years ago we had 2 vets caring for 1000 tbs, as SA added more barns in the present.
The average crosses of Ph. per tb 30 years ago was 6, today its almost double that figure. Tbs 30 years ago were inbred with a variety on NP sire lines, & Ph. that produced asound tb. Today the tbs are bred for Fashion minus thos NP sire line inbreedings as the breed is now 95 % Ph. which is why we have 20 vets caring for our tb with tons of problems without durability.
I didnt make that statement that u posted, that was made by the vet i had conversation with. i agrre injections are a big negative.

[louis finochio]

what do all these senior trainers have in common? Wingfield, Warren, Walsh, Truman, Velasquez, Vienna, Palma, Moreno, Mc Nally, Lerille, Bell Bernstein, Drysdale, Fanning, Frankel.
All of these trainers dont use the vets 24/7 as they know how to fix the problems that these tbs have from time to time. These trainers came up under ice, leg paint, time, oats hay water.

The new generationof trainers didnt come up under those same principals. Every time their Tbs have a problem they call the vets to fix it. The vets are training their Tbs, but are not listed as the trainer.

[Bunty Lawless]

Why do we have 20 vets on duty today to care for 1200 tbs ? when 30 years ago we had 2 vets caring for 1000 tbs, as SA added more barns in the present.
.

Steroids, clenbuterol, milkshaking, fever of the ankle, and an abundance of trainers that haven't a clue about keeping a 1000 lb athlete sound and happy.

[parlo]

what do all these senior trainers have in common? Wingfield, Warren, Walsh, Truman, Velasquez, Vienna, Palma, Moreno, Mc Nally, Lerille, Bell Bernstein, Drysdale, Fanning, Frankel. ...

How do the "fashion breds" of these trainer perform? Are their careers longer? Or do these trainers refrain from training those horses? Are they still in business or is @Louis talking again of the long gone "good old days" when racing had less medication / doping and there were fewer sprint-races?

[el camino]

I have had a few friends over the years that have taken winstrol and they were not taking 200% more than horses were getting! Also there is a cumulative affect, other factors incude the age at which they started. Some sales horses were getting shots as weanlings! To dismiss steroids as a causal factor because something that a vet told in passing is as stupid as this thread is in suggesting two crosses to the same horse in the 5th generation is the ruination of the breed! Why we make it so complicated, I dont know...inbreeding of good genes good! inbreeding of bad genes bad! Thats the way it works in nature.

[louis finochio]

SHE'S JAZZY (USA) gr/r. F, 2004 DP = 8-5-8-1-0 (22) DI = 3.40 CD = 0.91 - 3 Starts, 0 Wins, 2 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $8,404

Owner: Robert E. Legg
Breeder: Roger E. Legg
State Bred: PA

Foaled June 3, 2004.
Trained by James Connor, III.
Euthanized after breaking down while on the lead in a maiden claiming race at Delaware Park, July 4, 2008.

SHES JAZZY gr, F. 2004
Jazz Club---Shes Fab, by Nostrum

SJ has a balance of 8 crosses Ph. & 8 crosses NP, but her prolific inbreeding to those Ph. foundation stallions & mare Natalma overide her balance of sire lines.
SJ is inbred 3 X 4 ND---3 X 4 X 5 Natalma---4 X 5 X 5 Native Dancer---5 X 5 Nashua---4 X 5 Nearctic. SJ has 1 cross each of Mr. P.& RAN.
SJ was a Fashion Bred & was bred from a high risk mating for unsoundness.

[louis finochio]

90 % of those active trainers today i posted train those claiming tbs, so u cant take a curve on the entire tbs that are trained by them, as they dont have any Fashion breds in their shedrow.

The fashion breds in appearance by their conformation give their selves away by their weedy small hind end & narrow chest, as their legs & ankles have small bone & a non-robust frame.

Those Non-Fashion breds have a very robust frame, & legs of strong wide cannon bone ,that supports their heavy frame when training & racing.

Last week i saw this beautiful tb with a robust frame & conformation of steel,his legs were of the same. I knew his was bred from an outcross mating. The groom told me his name was Pioneer of the Nile, he was produced from a Non-Fashion outcross mating. POTN is inbred 4 X 5 In Reality branch of Fair Play, with only 7 crosses of Ph.

[louis finochio]

GOLDEN LEMON DROP (USA) b. F, 2005 DP = 12-0-15-1-0 (28) DI = 2.29 CD = 0.82 - 1 Starts, M Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $400

Owner: Mr & Mrs Larry D Williams
Breeder: Mr & Mrs Larry D Williams
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 1 Starts: M - 0 - 0, $400

Foaled May 14, 2005.
Trained by Steve Specht.
Euthanized July 6, 2008, after fracturing her right front sesamoids during training at Golden Gate Fields

GOLDEN LEMON DROP b. F. 2005
Lemon Drop Kid---Color of Gold, by Seeking the Gold

GLD has unbalanced inbreeding to the max being inbred to the following foundation stallions & mare.
GLD is inbred 5 X 5 Nashua Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Tom Fool Pharamond branch Ph.---4 X 4 RAN Polynesian branch Ph.---3 X 3 Mr. P Polynesian branch Ph.---3 X 5 ND Nearco banch Ph.---4 X 4 Buckpasser Pharamond branch Ph.---4 X 4 Gold Digger mare by Nashua Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 X 5 Native Dancer Polynesian branch Ph.
All these stallions & mare descend from the sire line of Ph. This mating would have tested to the lowest level of a bone denity reading.
GLD had 11 crosses Ph out of a possible 16 thru her sires.