Covering restraints

Get advice on your broodmares and stallion selection.

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Truly
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Covering restraints

Postby Truly » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:16 pm

Hi, Please can anyone suggest ways of restraining a mare from kicking my stallion?
Background info: maiden mare was sent away to stud year before last to a pony stallion. Stallion owner said mare would kick out just as stallion was about to jump up even though she was fully in season and showing to him..even lightly sedated her and she still kicked out when he went to jump up..in the end they A.I'd her and she took straight away and lovely foal born last year.
This year same thing is happening but I don't have the option of A.Iing as stallion is TB.
Anyone know ways around this where my stallion won't get hurt?
Many thanks in advance :)

ASB
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Postby ASB » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:29 pm

Just hobble her so she can't do any damage to him.

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Postby K~2 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 pm

I lift a front leg using a leg strap, as well as using a twitch (or lip chain)

If you hobble, just be careful that your stallion doesnt' get entangled.

If you are using tranq, stay away from Rompum, it may cause sensitivity in the hind end.
Legal Jousting (Indian Ridge X In Anticipation - Sadler's Wells) standing at Kingsgate Stud

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Truly
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Postby Truly » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:46 pm

Thanks :)
I was thinking of using a leg strap but was worried if she's sedated she might fall over.
How would the hobbles work? would they go from back legs to under chest and onto neck? because that's my other worry that if normal hobbles they might both get tangled up.

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Postby tinners way » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:19 am

The farm you are breeding her at needs an experienced stallion manager. Is she not being bred at a stud farm with some experience?

The front leg hobble is very common, and an experienced breeding shed crew should be able to get the mare covered without sedation- and with no injury to either the stallion or the mare.

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Postby Truly » Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:21 pm

She is not away at a big commercial stud..she is my mare and I'm covering her with my stallion.
If she was at a big commercial stud they would be dealing with the problem themselves.
I've covered with two stallions here over the past 20 years and one is 18yo and still here..the one I am using at the moment is 2yo this year.
Mostly I send my mares away to stud because they are related to my 18yo stallion but the ones I have covered here have never been a problem..hence the question :)

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Postby tinners way » Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:25 pm

Truly, I am not picking on you. The act of breeding is extremely dangerous as we all know. If possible, do you have some nearby help with experience that could come in and help you with this mare. It sounds like you have more than your hands full with this one, and it may worth finding someone with additional experience handling this mare. Good luck.

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Postby griff » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:03 pm

Why don't you pasture breed them??

Horses have been successfully doing this for thousands and thousands of years with much better foal to covered mare results than the best farms anywhere.

I believe that was a successful solution for Foolish Pleasure.

griff
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Postby Truly » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:30 pm

tinners way wrote:Truly, I am not picking on you. The act of breeding is extremely dangerous as we all know. If possible, do you have some nearby help with experience that could come in and help you with this mare. It sounds like you have more than your hands full with this one, and it may worth finding someone with additional experience handling this mare. Good luck.


Thank you :)

Unfortunately I don't know anyone experienced apart from the staff at the studs I've sent my mares to.. and they are too far away to take both horses there.
Plus he is covering two other mares here too..they are all cycling at the same time.
I can't ask the stud staff to come to me as they are busy this time of year and I couldn't afford the expense to get them to come to me anyway :(

I've bought some normal felt and leather hobbles and cut the strap off and cut/fixed a strong lunge rope with some stirrup leathers to make some breeding hobbles. I injected her last night and my vet is coming in the morning to sedate her and we are going to try and cover her the once and hope we have the timing right.

PS Had a lovely filly born last night by my older stallion :)

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Postby Truly » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:37 pm

griff wrote:Why don't you pasture breed them??

Horses have been successfully doing this for thousands and thousands of years with much better foal to covered mare results than the best farms anywhere.

I believe that was a successful solution for Foolish Pleasure.

griff


Would love to Griff..but she'll seriously hurt him :(
They actually tried that with the pony stallion that is used to running out with mares but she kicked him so bad he wouldn't even look at her after that :(..so they A.I'd her
It works with most horses but not all horses.

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Postby LB » Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:28 pm

griff wrote:Why don't you pasture breed them??

Horses have been successfully doing this for thousands and thousands of years with much better foal to covered mare results than the best farms anywhere.


Do you have any statistics to back that up?

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Postby griff » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:50 pm

Are you asking for stats that prove horses have been breeding naturally for thousands and thousands of years?/

OK, on the live foals per covered mares thing.. Take a ride out into the federial lands in Nevada and every band of feral horses you run across will have close to a 100% foal crop at the mares side who is usually large with foal, and they do ot without Settle, or Regumate or gain or supplements of palparting vets or stallion managers assiting the stud to mount.

In fact, the feds are trying to develope a means to contorl the growth of these feral horses while we are spending tons of money tring to get our mares to catch and hold..

griff
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Postby freshman » Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:12 pm

griff wrote:Why don't you pasture breed them??

Horses have been successfully doing this for thousands and thousands of years with much better foal to covered mare results than the best farms anywhere.


Yep, pasture or herd breeding has worked for eons. Works great, except for the stallions that got kicked in the nuts and were rendered infertile. And not so much for mares that--for whatever reason--kick at the horses that try to cover her. She won't get many dates acting like that, or have very many babies...

Seriously, TBs and other domestic horses are pretty far removed from this sort of "natural" breeding model. Their matings have been so much manipulated that is no wonder there are some strange breeding behaviors in some individuals. Matings are based on speed and many whim their owners have in their matches, but not for the most adaptive mating processes. Horses that don't cooperate are drugged, restrained, etc, so that they reproduce in spite of themselves. And they, in turn, go on to produce offspring that have the potential to have the same twisted behaviors, characteristics, etc.

It's simple to hobble the mare by using a length of soft cotton rope to tie-up a foreleg or hind limb. A three-legged horse can't kick. Hobbling both hinds works, too. A pre-made commercial pair can be bought cheaply. There is some degree of risk that the mare will manage to fall or tangle herself, so it is prudent to put a twitch on her to distract and discourage her from moving or kicking. I'd not sedate her unless you have a team of skilled handlers, good horsemen, that can support her if she does get off balance, and who are able to react quickly and compentently if she goes down or gets tangled up.

Good luck!
"I'll lay me down and bleed a while, and then I'll rise and fight again." Sir Barton

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Postby griff » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:53 pm

And yet, Foolish Pleasure, a very valuable stallion was able to get many mares in foal with pasture breeding, and I may be wrong here but I don't think he was ever seriousely injured nor were his mares.

It's kind of like when the Government decides free marker capitalism does not work any more and steps in to fix it.. same good motivation and same sorry results.

griff
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Postby freshman » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:45 pm

griff wrote:And yet, Foolish Pleasure, a very valuable stallion was able to get many mares in foal with pasture breeding, and I may be wrong here but I don't think he was ever seriousely injured nor were his mares.
griff


The fact that he did not get injured doesn't surprise me. It also doesn't change the fact that he was statistically at much greater risk for a kick injury than stallions that are hand-bred to mares that are rendered unable to do so via hobbles, etc. It's not a chance that many stallion owners are willing to take with a good stallion that they care enough to stand, have promoted, and built their breeding program on him.

Not convinced? Ask your veterinarian or others about the horses they have seen or treated for breeding accidents. Or just ask an insurance agent to explain it to you!
"I'll lay me down and bleed a while, and then I'll rise and fight again." Sir Barton