Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:30 am

BAD LITTLE FELLOW (USA) b. G, 1999 DP = 5-7-10-0-0 (22) DI = 3.40 CD = 0.77 - 74 Starts, 12 Wins, 10 Places, 6 Shows Career Earnings: $206,746

Owner: Championhill Stables
Breeder: Darrell R. Sapp
State Bred: OH
Winnings: 74 Starts: 12 - 10 - 6, $206,746

1st Cleveland Gold Cup S., 2nd Best Ohio Endurance S.

Foaled Feb 23, 1999

BAD LITTLE FELLOW b. G, 1999
Lost Soldier---Say Your Prayers, by Keep it Down

BLF is a Non-Fashion Bred with 8 crosses Ph, & 8 crosses NP, thru his sires.

BLF is Inbred 5 X 5 Princequillo branch Prince Rose----5 X 5 Native Dancer Polynesian branch Ph.

This is a mating of soundness, as BLF has a balance of 8 crosses NP & 8 crosses Ph. Congrats to his breeder in breeding for soundness.

karenkarenn · Postby **karenkarenn** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:27 am

Hello Louis
I have a thought that I wanted to talk to you about.
Have you done any work on the Stallions with GB, Ireland, European Families in regards to the artificial surfaces around North America?
Horses like In Excess, and Suances.
Karen

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Both In Excess & Suances have those Euro ancestors of turf breeding & ancestors of the same. I havent researched how their progeny would like or not like our synthetic surfaces.

Trainer Darrel Vienna told me in 2 years, that the synthetic tracks will be replaced with dirt.

Worksoplad · Postby **Worksoplad** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:04 pm

"I need more names of the TB that have had career ending injuries to continue my search. "

To call it research is the biggest hyperbole of the last century.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:09 am

TOUR OF THE CAT (USA) b. G, 1998 DP = 3-4-4-3-0 (14) DI = 1.80 CD = 0.50 - 75 Starts, 20 Wins, 12 Places, 13 Shows Career Earnings: $1,094,558

Owner: Double G Stable
Breeder: CVS Sales Company
State Bred: FL
Winnings: 75 Starts: 20 - 12 - 13, $1,094,558

At 3: 1st The Vid S. (CRC), Rizzi S. (CRC), 2nd Flamingo S (HIA), Calder Derby (CRC), Pete Axthelm S. (CRC), Needles S. (CRC), 3rd Simply Majestic S. (CRC)
At 4: 1st Jack Dudley Sprint Handicap (CRC), Groomstick Handicap (CRC), Exclusive Praline Handicap (CRC), Naked Greed S. (CRC), 2nd Kenny Noe Jr. Handicap (CRC), Super S. (TAM), Jackie Wackie Handicap (CRC), 3rd Tampa Bay Breeders' Cup S. (TAM), Carterista Handicap (CRC)

At 5: 1st Richter Scale Breeders' Cup Hcp. (GP), Miami Mile Breeders' Cup Handicap (CRC), Spend A Buck Handicap (CRC), 2nd Carl G. Rose Classic Handicap (CRC), Tampa Bay Breeders' Cup S. (TAM), 3rd Kenny Noe, Jr. Handicap (CRC), Linear S. (CRC)

At 6: 1st Sumter S. (CRC)

At 8: 3rd Radar Love S. (CRC)

TOUR OF THE CAT b. G, 1998
Tour d' Or---Tune in to the Cat, by Tunerup

TOTC is a Non-Fashion Bred with 23 crosses NP---9 crosses Ph. thru his sires & dams.
TOTC is inbred 5 X 5 X 5 Princequillo, branch Prince Rose.

Those outcross NP stallions that appear in TOTC 5 generation pedigree are: Banquet Table by Round Table by Princequillo=Prince Rose.----Rocky Royale by Rockefella=Gainsborough----Tunerup by The Pruner by Herbager by Vandale=Dark Ronald.

TOTC has 1 cross each of those NP stallions: Debbysman=Prince Rose----Needles=Gainsborough----I Appeal=Fair Play----Better Self=Peter Pan----Lovely Night=Rock Sand----Chop Chop=Teddy.

This is a brillant mating for soundness, TOTC has inherited the stamina & the older they get the better they get. The Inbreeding to Princequillo has stamped its quality of late bloomer & soundness. Congrats to TOTC breeder for creating a Non-Fashion TB of soundness.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:17 am

Moss helps retire Tour of the Cat to Old Friends

by Ed DeRosa

Even at the advanced age of 11, Tour of the Cat had no problem earning his keep in the shedrow, but Maggi Moss thought the Tour d’Or gelding had earned his retirement.

Moss helped Jagger Inc. claim the ten-time stakes winner and career earner of $1,106,955 for $5,000 on July 16 at Presque Isle Downs and donated him to Old Friends Equine retirement home for Thoroughbred racehorses.

Moss credited Alex Brown Racing with helping facilitate the transaction. Brown exercises horses for trainer Steve Asmussen and is an outspoken critic of Thoroughbred slaughter.

Tour of the Cat won 21 of 79 lifetime races during a ten-year career, in which he raced for Susan Gannon’s Double G Stable for eight of those years. Gannon claimed Tour of the Cat out of his career debut—a race he won by three lengths—on November 11, 2000, at Calder Race Course for $25,000.

Tour of the Cat won at least one stakes in each of the next four seasons, including a trio of Grade 3 races in 2003 at Gulfstream Park and Calder. David Jacobson claimed Tour of the Cat for $16,000 on November 29, 2008, at Calder and returned the gelding to the races this year, when he won two of five starts. Tour of the Cat finished sixth in his final career race.

Moss said Tuesday that Tour of the Cat already has arrived at Old Friends in Georgetown, Kentucky.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:40 am

HOLD DANCE (USA) ch. F, 2006 DP = 2-2-6-2-0 (12) DI = 1.40 CD = 0.33 - 1 Starts, M Wins, 1 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $7,400

Owner: Los Banditos Stable LLC
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 1 Starts: M - 1 - 0, $7,400

OBSAUG07 $4K

Updated July 2009
6/28/09 Monmouth. Race 1. 25K Claiming. PRIOR RACE 21JUN09. Broke down and fell after finishing 5/6.

HOLD DANCE Ch. F, 2006
Hold that Tiger---Can Thou Dance, by Seattle Dancer

HD was a Fashion Bred with 20 crosses of Ph sire line stallions in her 5 generation pedigree.

HD was inbred to all Ph sire line stallions & the mare Natalma 5 X 5 Polynesian branch Ph.----3 X 4 Cannonade Nearco branch Ph.----4 X 4 ND Nearco branch Ph.----5 X 5 Bold Ruler Nearco branch Ph.----4 X 5 Bold Bidder Nearco branch Ph.----5 X 5 Tom Fool Pharamond branch Ph.----5 X 5 Nearctic Nearco branch Ph.

This high risk Fashion Bred mating had no balance of NP & Ph. sire lines. The prolific Inbreeding to Ph. added to the unsoundness of this mating.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:47 am

FUNNY MOON (USA) ch. F, 2006 DP = 8-5-15-2-0 (30) DI = 2.16 CD = 0.63 - 6 Starts, 4 Wins, 1 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $265,900

Owner: Mrs. C. Wilson McNeely, III
Breeder: Mr. & Mrs. Gerald J. Stautberg
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 6 Starts: 4 - 1 - 0, $265,900

At 3: Won Coaching Club American Oaks (G1,Bel,10F)

Foaled February 27, 2006.
Trained by Christophe Clement.
Broke maiden at Gulfstream Park going 1 mile in the slop, on March 18, 2009.

FUNNY MOON ch. F, 2006
Malibu Moon---Fun Crowd, by Easy Goer

FM is a Fashion Bred with 20 crosses NP---12 crosses Ph. thru her sires & dams.
FM is Inbred 4 X 4 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 Buckpasser, Pharamond branch Ph.---5 X 5 Native Dancer, Polynesiasn brancgh Ph.----5 X 5 Raise You mare by Case Ace=Teddy outcross.

From the mare proceeds the worth, thiose superior producing mares that appear in FM 5 generation pedigree are: Relaxing, My Charmer, Lassie Dear, Weekend Surprise, Sweet Tooth, Busanda, Somethingroyal, Green Valley, Raise You.

FM has 14 crosses NP thru her dams & 2 crosses Ph. to overide her Inbreeding to thiose Ph. Foundation stallions that add soundness to FM mating.

Easy Goer BMS of FM is a better BMS than a Sire of Sires, as Easy Goer background is dominated by Female Family Inbreeding.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:55 am

GOLDEN LEMON DROP (USA) b. F, 2005 DP = 12-0-15-1-0 (28) DI = 2.29 CD = 0.82 - 1 Starts, M Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $400

Owner: Mr & Mrs Larry D Williams
Breeder: Mr & Mrs Larry D Williams
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 1 Starts: M - 0 - 0, $400

Foaled May 14, 2005.
Trained by Steve Specht.
Euthanized July 6, 2008, after fracturing her right front sesamoids during training at Golden Gate Fields

GOLDEN LEMON DROP b. F, 2005
Lemon Drop Kid---Color of Gold, by Seeking the Gold

GLD was a Fashion Bred with 25 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions out of a possible 30 in her 5 generation pedigree.

GLD was Inbred 4 X 4 Buckpasser, Pharamond branch Ph.---5 X 5 Tom Fool, Pharamond branch Ph.---5 X 5 X 5 Native Dancer, Polynesian branch Ph.---3 X 3 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 4 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---3 X 5 ND, Nearco branch Ph.

On a scale of 1-10 this mating would be classified a 10 to produce an unsound individual. The Inbreeding to those Ph sire line foundation stallions was over done & carried too far.

I am seeing a negative pattern of these Fashion Breds when Inbreeding is carried to far, they are breaking their bones. Those Non-Fashion Breds are not breaking their bones, they are being injured & coming back into training.

parlo · Postby **parlo** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:02 pm

louis finochio wrote:... On a scale of 1-10 this mating would be classified a 10 to produce an unsound individual. ...

Always good for a joke, our dear buddy L., isn't he?

From where did you take the idea for such an important-sounding sentence? Kinsey Report, Masters & Johnson, Nancy Freyday?

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:30 pm

I have a friend that wants to become a trainer. He does not want to buy Fashion Breds at the market, he wants to buy those Non-Fashion Breds, as they are bred for soundness.

My friend is young & wants me to classify all those Non-Fashion Breds, at the sales. Those are the ones he will purchase for his owners.

parlo · Postby **parlo** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:52 pm

Well, you may classify whatever you want - but if you publish your verdicts (what you have done for 218 pages by now), you should at least use comprehensive and validated methods and measures. Anything else is just rubbish.

Some x-tems pages ago you said you would not give prognosis on horses - "because the horses speak for themselves" - what made you change your mind?

After all what you have written here on your favorite subject your friend should be able to identify those Non-fashion-breds by his own. Otherwise your pain taking in building up this thread over the forgone 3 years would have been useless.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:55 am

PASIONARIA F, 2004 DP = 6-1-7-2-0 (16) DI = 1.91 CD = 0.69 Career Earnings: $10205

foaled 02/15/2004
won 10/29/2006 El Comandante, mdn clmg, $5,070, 6 f, 1:14.38.
5/5/07: $5K clm race 4 Camerero, broke down stretch

PASIONARIA b. F, 2004
Be Frank---Too Many Secrets, by Yallah Prince

P was a Fashion Bred that had 24 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions in her 5 generation pedigree.

P had 2 starts & was Inbred 4 X 4 X 5 X 5 ND, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 4 Nijinsky, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Nearctic, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Natalma, Polynesian branch---5 X 5 Somethingroyal mare =Prince Rose outcross.

Be Frank sire of P is a son of Storm Cat, I am starting to see a prolific number of injuries & breakdowns that are from sons of Storm Cat. When they are used in the Inbreeding of those Ph. foundation stallions, it will add to the unsoundness of those matings.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:09 am

I have not changed my mine, If my friends want me to look & classify their purchases to be, I will give them my opinion.

I wont go thru a sales catalog & post my opinion of Fashion Breds, as It wouldnt be fair to the breeder.

My friend a trainer to be, is a rookie at reading pedigrees, he needs to steep himself into the bloodlines, and separate the wheat from the chaff. It comes easy for me, as the work & research of those Nicking Patterns, set the table for me.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:37 am

Danehill's soundess progeny when bred to outcross mares continued.

GRAMPIANS (AUS) b. G, 1996 DP = 2-5-14-0-3 (24) DI = 1.40 CD = 0.13 - 61 Starts, 8 Wins, 5 Places, 7 Shows Career Earnings: A$330,820

Winnings: 61 Starts: 8 - 5 - 7, A$330,820

1rst:
2002 STC Lord Mayors Cup (2400M)
2003 QTC Easter Cup (2125M)

1996 GRAMPIANS b. G. 61 starts---Dam Balmoral by Star Shower.

Balmoral wasInbred 4 X 5 Owen Tudor branch Gainsborough---5 X 5 X 5 X 5 Hyperion branch Gainsborough. Balmoral had 12 crosses NP---4 Ph thru her sires.