57% win percentage??

Sylvie Hebert · Postby **Sylvie Hebert** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:12 am

By reading you(Jean and George)this confirm my "hope":the guy is really conditionning and caring for horses.In this business just plain doing this should increase your percentage and i sure wish he is really watching his barn so not to get hit...

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:52 pm

majxmom wrote:Anybody whose win percentage goes up in the detention barn must be the real deal. I assume they don't let you in there with an Air Power syringe.

Ya he had to be in the "detention barn" for all of an hour pre race. :roll:

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:24 pm

Tucumcari wrote:Ya he had to be in the "detention barn" for all of an hour pre race.

Which means nothing was showing up in the urine tests so they were checking for milkshaking. If you want to milkshake a horse at NP all you have to do is wait until after they draw blood which they usually do about 45 minutes before the race, leaving you alot of time to administer your milkshake. I heard that his horses were in detention for 4 hours, lasix time to race time.

Regardless of whether the detention time was 1 hour or 4 hours, reality is that if you are going to use a drug that will be completely metabolized before they collect urine and/or blood samples in the test barn, you have to administer it very close to race time in order for it to have an effect on the horses performance. Only in peoples wish books do drugs exist that can be administered days in advance, have a dramatic impact on performance and then suddenly diappear before the urine test is done. The detention for JM was to see if he was gaming the milkshaking rules. They found out he wasn't so they aren't wasting their time or his by running a temporary detention facility.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:49 pm

Detention barns ought to be 24 hours. Milkshakes are old news. Come with something new Dave. You heard, I heard... whatever. One or four hours is moot. And time will tell I suppose. I personally don't think that jumping a horse up from 7,500 to 10,000 or 12,000 is a big deal. Happens all the time. Like I said I will be so far from surprised when the guy has and "issue."

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:34 am

Milkshaking is old news again, only because there is widespread testing for it now. I'm not accusing him of cheating so it's not up to me to come up with some new none testing drug to suggest he's using.

'If' he's using something HRA (if they are competent) already knows that he is using, they just don't know what it is. Most drugs are discovered because they produce anomalous biochemical signatures in the urine samples. It takes time and money to figure out what is producing the anomalies unless they get a sample of the drug to analyze (they did do a search of his barn earlier). If they have done an analysis of his horses they are not going to release that information whether it suggests he is clean or dirty. Therefore based on the information that is available, I conclude that there is no support for the accusation that he is cheating. A lack of evidence is not the same thing as saying he is innocent.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:09 am

The sad beauty of our sport is that it really doesn't matter. If they found something, synthesized it and found that someone was cheating, what exactly is the recourse? A $500 dollar fine? You can leave a path of destruction: with honest owners, breeders, trainers, the betting public and everyone else churning in your wake... and it would matter not.

Tucumcari · Postby **Tucumcari** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:47 am

Dave, like I said I don't find a jump from 7,00 to 10, 000 alarming. BUT the one hour "detention barn" is a joke. Again I say I wouldn't be surprised he something comes up bad.

George William Smith · Postby **George William Smith** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:58 pm

And he does his own farrier work as he is licensed to do track farrier work. Interestingly, one of the horses that won it's next start impressively off his claim, reported had its shoes pulled and at least one hoof was badly infected that I am aware of. This caused an owner with at least four horses to move his horses from the trainer that didn't recognize the hoof problem to the trainer with the high percentage of winners. One of these horses ran last night at Northlands Park ran a big race at long odds, finishing 2nd and paying $9.20 to place.

George

ArchDandy · Postby **ArchDandy** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:49 pm

I apologize for hijacking but I have a question about the very last post. Do you have to have a track farrier license to trim a horse that doesnt wear shoes? I have heard in other countries you have to have a license to shoe, but not to just trim.

Sylvie Hebert · Postby **Sylvie Hebert** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:59 pm

even when you need a license you can still shoe your own as owner trainer

George William Smith · Postby **George William Smith** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:11 pm

ArchDandy wrote:I apologize for hijacking but I have a question about the very last post. Do you have to have a track farrier license to trim a horse that doesnt wear shoes? I have heard in other countries you have to have a license to shoe, but not to just trim.

Can only answer for Alberta Canada, but if you shoe horses in the barns at the tracks you must have a license. If a horse in a trainer's care had his shoes removed for some time, I don't think they would get excited if he also trimmed the feet unless he was turned in by one of the local track ferriers. lol

George William Smith · Postby **George William Smith** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:16 pm

Sylvie Hebert wrote:even when you need a license you can still shoe your own as owner trainer

Sorry didn't see your post. I'm surprised you wouldn't need a license though as many licensed in Alberta are licensed in many capacities..groom, exercise rider, trainer, owner, etc. When I was a trainer in Alberta, I didn't do my own shoeing, just trimming, etc. I can see why an owner/trainer wouldn't need a ferrier's license because they could do the shoeing themselves off the grounds.

Sylvie Hebert · Postby **Sylvie Hebert** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:36 am

always shod my own,so never got harrassed anywhere,states or canada but if i was to ever think about doing someone else i bet i would be in trouble.Many years ago i used a non-licensed farrier,he would come to the parking lot and i would travel by trailer the horses to be done one by one...we could not walk one out or in and had to fill slip both ways...

Quinn · Postby **Quinn** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:51 am

Several years ago this trainer was briefly at our track . At that time he had a mobile hperbaric oxygen unit . Does he use it at Northlands???

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:18 am

V. Cerin has a HBO Chamber, & uses it 4 his tbs, the CHRB wants to report all those traners that are using those chambers to the betting public.