Zenyatta HOY

[FOS]

hi zinn21

With all due respect to RA, who had a HOY season she failed to show on the biggest day of the year, 100% sound and she did not race past a mile and three sixteenths.

Don't think your alone. Jerry Bailey focused on that too and didn't mince his words during the television commentary (post BC Classic) when driving home the point that Team Rachel chose to skip the 1 1/4 mile Travers in favor of the mile and an eighth JCGC. Bailey made a compelling case that the mile and a quarter Travers would have been a much more difficult task for Rachel A than the mile and an eighth JCGC. Bailey then emphasized that Team Rachel A chose to skip running in any Breeders' Cup race too.

Bailey also made it very clear...undefeated Zenyatta won the mile and a quarter Breeders' Cup Classic and was hands down, without a doubt, his choice for Horse Of The Year.

There is, certainly, a lot of subjectivity in the vote decision process. Yesterday's Classic was one of those "subjectivity" points for me..

Zenyatta took a world class field of older males at a classic distance of a mile and a quarter and simply toyed with them.

Bull's-eye !!!

Yesterday's race alone IMO stamps her as HOY. And let's not forget-she is undefeated...

Bull's-eye again.

Here are some quotes from a couple of trainers that were up close and personal...and attempted to defeat Zenyatta in the BC Classic.

Daily Racing Form quoted trainer Bob Baffert on Zenyatta... "It was the only time in horse racing that I didn't mind getting beat in a race. If they don't reward her with Horse of the Year, it would be a travesty. Zenyatta made the Breeders' Cup. And the way she won! I've never seen a crowd so captivated. It felt like a horse winning the third leg of the Triple Crown."

Post BC Classic, trainer Saeed bin Suroor (who had two both Regal Ransom and Girolamo in the BC Classic) was also quoted, saying about Zenyatta..."She's a different class. By far. By millions."

Christophe Clement (trainer of Gio Ponte) on Zenyatta... "She's just a freak. What can I say?"

"She beat the heck out of us," said Eoin Harty, the trainer of Colonel John, who finished fifth in the Classic. "That was probably the greatest performance I've ever seen. Fantastic. I'm happy and proud for Zenyatta and glad I was here to see that. I never saw Secretariat run but I've never seen anything like her."

Best.

Respectfully

[JimbleBrimble]

Fortunately, in the case of [Horse of the Year] there is a way to help to clear the air, which may and I emphasize "may" help. It is a fact that NO horse has ever been awarded Horse of the Year without winning at the minimum distance of a mile and a quarter in North America beginning in the 1800's. None in the 1900's up to this year


[/b]Horse of the Year winners must win at the classic distance of a mile and a quarter or more

You made a boo-boo: Azeri didn't win at 1-1/4 miles until 2004, 2 years after her HOY year.

Tairaterces, that poster has a history of presenting false data here, and he has been called on it in the past. Don't counter his false data with false data of your own.

Azeri never won over 1 1/4 miles, period.

[jrgators]

IMO
Best races I've ever seen! There is NO way this mare shouldn't get HOY.

Theo

[toadie]

I WISH I had a vote, she'd damn sure get it. Outside of Secretariat, that's the best race I've ever seen. Live, or on TV. I've been to 4 BC's and I've never seen a crowd reaction like that!

I didn't cash my win ticket

[spinround]

I thouroughly enjoyed yesterdays race, but I can't see Zenyatta as HOTY for two reasons - her overall season vs. Rachel's and the field she ran against yesterday.

The season argument is obvious - Z ran 5 times, at 3 different tracks in 1 state, 4 G-1 wins and one win against males. Rachel ran 8 times, 7 tracks, six states, five G-1s and 3 against males. Too often the results on BC day trump a seasons worth of racing. Yes the Classic was a great, amazing win. But without it we wouldn't be having this discussion.

As to the field, I just can't get over that the majority got beat by Gitano Hernando last month. Of the ones who didn't, there were two 3yos who had proven synthetic problems (Summer Bird & Regal Ransom), one who had a ton of question marks (Girolamo), two second-tier Europeans and Gio Ponti.

Neither horse beat a real 'superstar' and they both won some very impressive races. Rachel just won more of them, over a longer period of time. I was the biggest Zenyatta fan last year, but her season this year left me underwhelmed until yesterday. Rachel went out and did things that horses just don't do anymore and she did them more often than big Z. The bottom line is I won't trade one amazing day for a whole season of them.

[karenkarenn]

And now she is retired.
Karen

[wen8t]

now they are comparing her too secretariat give me a break!

[karenkarenn]

Who is?

[wen8t]

my neighbors were over tonight and they were comparing z to secretariat I didn't see it , but iguess we all have are opinions

[George William Smith]

My compliments to Geowarrior for such well thought out comments that we all can digest and help for our own opinions.

The voters will have their own opinions based on their own knowledge and connections to the sport. And since I have been in the business at the highest levels I know opinions based on hidden agendas can sway enough voters to come up with a few Acorn vote results.

Fortunately, in the case of [Horse of the Year] there is a way to help to clear the air, which may and I emphasize "may" help. It is a fact that NO horse has ever been awarded Horse of the Year without winning at the minimum distance of a mile and a quarter in North America beginning in the 1800's. None in the 1900's up to this year

Zenyatta has now accomplished that fact. And it is also a fact Rachel had every chance in the year to run in a mile and a quarter race and the connections chose not to; maybe because they were unaware of the tradition that a mile and a quarter was a qualifying distance.

I want everyone to know that if Zenyatta failed to win at that distance, I myself would be searching for the best horse this year that had. We have so few solid traditions left, it's worth fighting for and educating the public about one of the biggies.

[/b]Horse of the Year winners must win at the classic distance of a mile and a quarter or more

You made a boo-boo: Azeri didn't win at 1-1/4 miles until 2004, 2 years after her HOY year.

You are absolutely correct. Somehow, I missed her never having won at a distance greater than 9 furlongs, even in an allowance race, etc. I just ran her race record at equine line.

My apologies, since that was a pivotal part of my argument which is now mute. In a previous post I had said on September 16 on the Racing Discussion "I thought there would be one or two in the last 109 years, but NONE. It has always been a requirement for the HOY award with the exception of 2yo's because they do not run that distance. "

Thanks for the clarification. Rachel can now not be held to the standard I thought she had to meet. Let the debate continue for two top class horses.

best, George William Smith

[George William Smith]

Fortunately, in the case of [Horse of the Year] there is a way to help to clear the air, which may and I emphasize "may" help. It is a fact that NO horse has ever been awarded Horse of the Year without winning at the minimum distance of a mile and a quarter in North America beginning in the 1800's. None in the 1900's up to this year


[/b]Horse of the Year winners must win at the classic distance of a mile and a quarter or more

You made a boo-boo: Azeri didn't win at 1-1/4 miles until 2004, 2 years after her HOY year.

Tairaterces, that poster has a history of presenting false data here, and he has been called on it in the past. Don't counter his false data with false data of your own.

Azeri never won over 1 1/4 miles, period.

If I am to assume that you are talking about me, George William Smith, as being the one in referred to as "that poster has a history of presenting false data here, and he has been called on it in the past", I would appreciate being notified of the false data so I could correct my mistake or defend my data."

My posts can easily be found with the search function of this list, so please find me examples of what you were referring to or at least let me know you were referring to someone else.

As you have just seen I am human and do make mistakes and would like to correct them. Perhaps, it is my thin skin, but in my opinion it seemed like you think I'm am in the habit of intentionally posting false data.

Help me understand the thrust of your statement.

Sincerely, George William Smith

[zinn21]

wen8t wrote:

now they are comparing her too secretariat give me a break!

I don't think that is too far fetched. Secretariat is my gold standard. Z does things I've only seen Big Red from Meadow do.

[tmacew]

George,

Regardless of whether any horse has won HOY without going 1 1/4, I think your point is valid in that it is traditionally the barometer for champions. Check to Zenyatta.

However, to be fair, the barometer for champions is also typically weighted toward one particular surface: dirt. Check to Rachel.

It should be an interesting Eclipse Awards!

[Matchemforever]

RA has won on synthetic, Zen on dirt. Draw on that issue. They are kind of in the same place there in some ways.

What Zen's owners did not do is dodge the question, "Can she?" She went up against Euro's, 3-year olds that RA faced, and a better field of older horses than RA faced. She ran at 1-1/4 and didn't just hang on for the win, she looked like she could have gone on. Granted, their running styles are different, but RA barely held off MTB and Macho Again.

Basically, they put it all on the line with Zenyatta, her unbeaten record, could she run 1-1/4, could she beat the boys- and she did so in dazzling fashion.

Love both fillies but for taking risks (Running against the boys and in Zen's case, the Euro's) and stepping out of the 1-1/8 comfort zone, advantage to Zenyatta.

I've been skeptical that RA could get 1-1/4 and I'm skeptical whether it's the synthetics or that distance that kept RA out of the Breeder's Cup. Both Jackson and her trainer probably had an inkling early on that she would not last against better competition at that distance which they were going to get in the BC. So her campaign was not geared to get her there. Knock off a few wins against the boys early on (And skip the one race that would have given her better creds, the Travers) and hope Zen stays out of the BC Classic. I suppose she would have if Sea the Stars had run but then RA was certainly not going to try him at that distance, either. Draw there.

Zen, for HOY.

[winds]

Oh boy, this debate will go on until the awards and probably after it. It's a shame that they can't share it. There are arguments for and against both girls. I'm just happy I got to watch both of them ( on tv or computer ) this year to see their accomplishments.

winds