Quality Road Banged Up

[bdw0617]

[
I think you are strongly misunderstanding what I'm saying.

I actually the todd pletcher is a very good horseman. Not once have I ever said the man "can't train". Please show me the post. he had to be to brach out on his own and accocmplish what he has accomplished.

I dont' question his horsemanship. Not at all. I question is his operation really the best fit for a horse as quirky as quality road? Was jerkins not a better fit for this type of horse? considering todd's assistants probably do most of the training and not him himself, i can't really question his horsemanship. I'm questioning is his operation really the best for this type of horse.

NO, I don't partiualy care for the man as a trainer, but that doesn't mean I dont't hin he can train. that's the destinion you seem to be trying to draw, but that's not what i'm trying to say.

I dont' care for the way he does things but even though I dno't care for the way he does things, ovbiously they work to some extent.

I don't think this happens if he were under the care of a smaller scale operation, is what I'm trying to say.

that's what i'm saying. not that he "can't train".

[UmmYeah]

I dont' care for the way he does things. that's what i'm saying. not that he "can't train".

Just curious. Do you not care for his methods as a fan, a handicapper, an owner, or someone that has had experience on the backside witnessing the methods of other training operations?

[bdw0617]

I dont' care for the way he does things. that's what i'm saying. not that he "can't train".

Just curious. Do you not care for his methods as a fan, a handicapper, an owner, or someone that has had experience on the backside witnessing the methods of other training operations?

that is actually a very good question.

As a fan I don't think trainers like him are good for our sport. while he's very, what's the word I'm looking for.... communictative? I don't think his training "style" is condusive to horses having long careers.

As a handicapper I love him to death actually. He takes money he shouldn't always and I get better odds. He's autotoss on all TC days anda ll BC days and will always draw money on "locks" (interactif for instance)

I don't know what he does... and lukas had this problem for a while until he really broke through, but he just.... sucks.. on big days. I mean he blows.

Most of it I think his hosres just don't fit, which is another reaason I don't particually care for the man. lots of young good careers have been ruined under his watch.

Todd plethceri s like 3 for 60 at the breeders cup where jerkins is 2 for 3. Do I think jerkins is that much better a trainer than pletcher? heck no.
do I think that pletchers owners are just THAT much different than jerkins where they all HAVE to be in the big races? no. I think pletcher aims his horses for big races, rather they really belong there or not.

when he gets one that belongs he knows what to do with him. Dunkirk was very impressive this year and his lost in the belmont even shocked the crap out of me. a very game 2nd place.

the problem I have are all the other horses who had no business on the triple crown trail, the breeders cup, just so he can say he has been there. Again, I don't think his owners or jerkins or say mcpeeks owners or dale roman's owners are all that different. if that makes any sense what i'm
trying to say.


I think the main reason I dont' like him is that I get the feeling sometimes, and Hell I might be wrong, but this is just the feeling I get, is that sometimes, the decisions he makes are not with the horses best interest in mind.

taking Quality road off of a long layoff, 6 and half grade 3 sprint, to the grade 1 travers going 10F, than the Jcgc than the breeders cup. it's like they were trying tom ake up for lost triple crown coverage time or something.

like i said, I don't think he's a BAD trainer. he might be the most underrated turf trainer in the country. I just don't think every decision he makes is wiith theh orses best interest in mind. at least when it comes to talented 3YO's.


It's like his goal is to get as many to the big race as he can, not necessarilyh win the big race.

A perfect exazmple I draw are two, the 2007 Kentucky derby trail and actually the 2007 breeders cup "trail".

he had 5 really good horses, any given saturday,c ircular quay, i'm missing one, scat daddy and i guess you can call cowtown cat a really godo one.

of the horses he sent, only scat daddy was really tested going intot he derby was scat daddy. he puts his horses in very soft races ust to get them to the derby, and then when they get there they all run up the track and everyone is confused.

same with the breeders cup that year. he 2 really good ones.. any given saturday and lawyer ron. he "preped" any given saturday in a grade 2 'brooklyn handicap' which was a glorifed allowence race his first against older horses, and you are supposed to go from that to winning the breeders cup. Again I dont' think that's in the horsesb est interest. I think that's in the interest of him getting as many horses in the gates of the breeders cup classic as possible.


right now I don't think running quality road in the cigar mile is really in the horses best interest.

I look at a horse like ghostzapper. ghostzapper to me is the epitme of what would a trainer to do with a horse. ozzes talent.. once in a decade talent.. but you have to be patient with him to get out it out of him.

I don't think ghostzapper sees his 4YO year under pletcher.

[Shammy Davis]

bdw617 posted:

. . . don't think this happens if he were under the care of a smaller scale operation, is what I'm trying to say.

that's what i'm saying. not that he "can't train".

You might be right. It is possible that more personal attention would benefit the horse. It certainly worked for SEABISCUIT, though getting him to the gate was not the problem.

[bdw0617]

bdw617 posted:

. . . don't think this happens if he were under the care of a smaller scale operation, is what I'm trying to say.

that's what i'm saying. not that he "can't train".

You might be right. It is possible that more personal attention would benefit the horse. It certainly worked for SEABISCUIT, though getting him to the gate was not the problem.

you think that is what turned seabiscuit around?

i thought it was that they stopped hitting him on the left side

[majxmom]

I wish somebody would give Jay Robbins a shot with another good horse. He worked wonders with Tiznow being so patient when he needed a lot more time out of the stall in the morning, and he had such a sore back.

[bdw0617]

I wish somebody would give Jay Robbins a shot with another good horse. He worked wonders with Tiznow being so patient when he needed a lot more time out of the stall in the morning, and he had such a sore back.

why doesn't he get any chances? I've never seen him with anything.

is he not a likeable person or something?

[Hops]

I wished they had tried to load him sans jockey. When he wouldn't load I and all the others around started yelling to scratch him. After Barbaro's Preakness they can't take any chances.

Water under the bridge, anyway. Glad everything turned out OK. Send the horse back to Jerkens.

[madelyn]

They DID load without the jockey. He exploded in the gate and busted out the front. The jockey was not on him at that time.

[Shammy Davis]

Madelyn posted:

. . . He exploded in the gate and busted out the front. The jockey was not on him at that time.

And with blindfold still on.

[Hops]

They did not take off the jockey to load him. The jockey bailed once in the gate.

[bdw0617]

i think the most impressive thing out of all that, and probably the most overlooked is the horse that loaded in right next to him. whoever that trainer is deserves a pat on the back.

horse didn't panic, didn't fret, just looked at QR like "man he's crazy"

[AscotStud]

OK...here we go!!!

Jerkens is better than TP hands down. I agree with your TP analysis of rushing horses to races they don't belong in, look at Impeachments (a horse we own) pps. Quality Road will run big in the Cigar Mile, the race suits him to a T. Ghostzapper forced himself into his schedule because of his own issues, one of my favorite if not favorite horses ever, but he was squeezed dry with the 6 starts they got into him, NOBODY could have run him more than he did if they wanted to. Awesome Gem probably loves being in the gate, it is in his nature NOT HIS TRAINERS WORK, I've had horses stand there like nothing is going on when horses hook their legs over the top of the gate, why because they don't care!!! Awesome Gem probably last saw the gate in his last start like 90% of horses who run.

Stop reading the Form and Bloodhorse and go see how things are really done day in and day out at a track. The glorified trainer routine only exists in a handful of barns and shows up in print. Horses being schooled everyday and working 3 times before races and skipping a race because of missing 2 days of training is only for Haskin and the other tagalongs.

I'm not being rude, just realistic and telling you like it is...the Bloodhorse etc...is mostly a fairytail of how things really are.

[bdw0617]

OK...here we go!!!

Jerkens is better than TP hands down. I agree with your TP analysis of rushing horses to races they don't belong in, look at Impeachments (a horse we own) pps. Quality Road will run big in the Cigar Mile, the race suits him to a T. Ghostzapper forced himself into his schedule because of his own issues, one of my favorite if not favorite horses ever, but he was squeezed dry with the 6 starts they got into him, NOBODY could have run him more than he did if they wanted to. Awesome Gem probably loves being in the gate, it is in his nature NOT HIS TRAINERS WORK, I've had horses stand there like nothing is going on when horses hook their legs over the top of the gate, why because they don't care!!! Awesome Gem probably last saw the gate in his last start like 90% of horses who run.

Stop reading the Form and Bloodhorse and go see how things are really done day in and day out at a track. The glorified trainer routine only exists in a handful of barns and shows up in print. Horses being schooled everyday and working 3 times before races and skipping a race because of missing 2 days of training is only for Haskin and the other tagalongs.

I'm not being rude, just realistic and telling you like it is...the Bloodhorse etc...is mostly a fairytail of how things really are.

\


lol, why do you keep mentioning the bloodhorse? where did that come from?

[Shammy Davis]

bdw617: Stop being so defensive.

Ascotstud is right. Good horsemen/women take time to learn the industry from the ground up. They familiarize themselves w/all the ends and outs. Good horsemen in the racing industry who work hands on with horses on daily basis take time to understand the handicapping and betting side of the house. They understand what the officials do. They seek advice in areas that they are not confident in. They do this because they want to be successful.

Handicappers don't necessarily need to have this kind of knowledge, but it probably wouldn't hurt.

Ascotstud makes a good point, not just to you, but to anyone who spends the majority of their time at the pari-mutuel window or with their eyes attached to the DRF. Give a trainer (or Racing Secretary) a call at nearby track and go visit and see what goes on. Many tracks (NTRA) give seminars on various aspects of HR.

I don't think it will be a waste of time for you or anyone and you'll probably be more enthusiastic about HR than you are now. Shoot, you might even want to become an owner or a partner.

As unfortunate as the QR incident was, his BC is history. He'll race again and we'll just to see what his form is then.