Imagine, Rachel Alexandra beat so-called males three times this year, and all of those males (25 of them) put together have exactly one fast-track win since facing Rachel'. That win was at Charles Town, West Virginia.
When is society going to investigate what a sorry lot of so-called foes Rachel' feasted on from February until September?
Her last filly race was a three-horse race in which the other pair, each running for second, battled up front in 1:08 4/5 over 1 1/8 miles. The end result was the only possible outcome given that pace - big deal.
The males Rachel beat this year are a sad, sad lot !!!
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
-
JimbleBrimble
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 503
- Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 3:15 pm
Puh-leeese. If you favor Zenyatta for HOY (as I do), say so, but this argument is nonsensical. RA defeated Summer Bird by six in the Haskell -- sure, it was a sloppy track. So what? Horses are supposed to run on all kinds of surfaces. Summer Bird is virtually certain to be named champion 3yo male and ran a quite respectable fourth in the Classic to his elders, beaten about three lengths for the whole enchilada. He won the Belmont over a fast track, the Travers and JCGC over sloppy tracks, so he can obviously handle just about anything well. Macho Again and Bullsbay were both G1 winners in what is admittedly a rather weak older male division, but they were a far cry from cheap horses, and Mine That Bird actually ran a very good race in the Preakness, as well as winning the Derby -- that's nothing to sneeze at, even if he hasn't been able to duplicate that performance since. As for the 3yo fillies, no, they weren't much, but how often do horses run off and win by 20 even over fairly weak competition, and with speed figures matched by only one other horse throughout the year -- Zenyatta? The blunt facts are that Rachel Alexandra ran a first-rate campaign, was able to win even on her worst days (which by speed figures came in the Peakness and Woodward), and beat everything that faced her, among which was the champion 3yo male. She is a more than worthy champion in her own division and a worthy candidate for HOY -- the only reason that I would not vote for her in the latter category is that I think Zenyatta is even better after the way in which she handled the Classic field.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
-
Strategic Maneuver
- Starters Handicap
- Posts: 608
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:09 pm
- Location: Texas
Mahubah wrote:Puh-leeese. If you favor Zenyatta for HOY (as I do), say so, but this argument is nonsensical. RA defeated Summer Bird by six in the Haskell -- sure, it was a sloppy track. So what? Horses are supposed to run on all kinds of surfaces. Summer Bird is virtually certain to be named champion 3yo male and ran a quite respectable fourth in the Classic to his elders, beaten about three lengths for the whole enchilada. He won the Belmont over a fast track, the Travers and JCGC over sloppy tracks, so he can obviously handle just about anything well. Macho Again and Bullsbay were both G1 winners in what is admittedly a rather weak older male division, but they were a far cry from cheap horses, and Mine That Bird actually ran a very good race in the Preakness, as well as winning the Derby -- that's nothing to sneeze at, even if he hasn't been able to duplicate that performance since. As for the 3yo fillies, no, they weren't much, but how often do horses run off and win by 20 even over fairly weak competition, and with speed figures matched by only one other horse throughout the year -- Zenyatta? The blunt facts are that Rachel Alexandra ran a first-rate campaign, was able to win even on her worst days (which by speed figures came in the Peakness and Woodward), and beat everything that faced her, among which was the champion 3yo male. She is a more than worthy champion in her own division and a worthy candidate for HOY -- the only reason that I would not vote for her in the latter category is that I think Zenyatta is even better after the way in which she handled the Classic field.
I'm not very comfortable posting on this forum, but this is so well said that I have to give a kudos to M. Well said!
Patuxet wrote:Mahubah writes: " Horses are supposed to run on all kinds of surfaces."
Good point. Tell it to Jess Jackson and the Rachel apologists!
absolutely !!! ...but as for a sad lot
...yeah there second stringers....boy oh boy i'd like to own one of them at there 2nd string level.......but.. BIG Z is HOY!!!!!!!!!!!A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
-
NiteOwl666
- Yearling
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:14 pm
- Contact:
The females Zenyatta beat in her 3 or 4 races weren't much nor was the field she beat in the Classic...so whats your point? Zenyatta was the last to run so everyone shift their love to her for HOY...Anyone with a true open mind can still see that there is no way that RA should not be HOY, this isn't a love fest. Connections don't matter, last year didn't matter, the only thing that matters is who had the best campaign and I think 99 out of 100 horsemen/women would choose Rachels over Zenyatta's (Sherrifs being the only one who objects)...if they are sane.
too weird to live...too rare to die
www.ascotstudfarm.com
www.ascotstudfarm.com
-
geowarrior
- Leading Sire
- Posts: 3593
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
The fact that Zenyatta was scratched out of a race where the track was wet (sealed) does not necessarily indicate that she cannot run over such a surface, only that her owners/trainer had reservations about running her on a sealed main track. This might have been related to reservations about whether she could run on the surface but it could equally have been about her size and concerns re. injury. We don't know that Zenyatta couldn't run on a sloppy track.
It really is a shame both these great mares chose to have outstanding racing years at the same time. In a year like this, subjectivity plays a bigger role, thus the inferior males/ran only in her backyard arguments.
For me, there are three things that tilt superiority towards Zenyatta.
A. She is undefeated.
B. She showed up with everything on the line at a classic distance vs. the best older male field of the year.
C. She defeated said field with ease.
None of the above can be said about Rachel Alexandra.
For me, there are three things that tilt superiority towards Zenyatta.
A. She is undefeated.
B. She showed up with everything on the line at a classic distance vs. the best older male field of the year.
C. She defeated said field with ease.
None of the above can be said about Rachel Alexandra.
-
Sylvie Hebert
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 778
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:19 pm
- Location: canada
i would take any horse on this "poor lot"too.Now evidently horses are running in a given period,man o'war ran in his time against those days competitors,secretariat too...on the surfaces of those specific tracks on those specific days,they are champions of a moment in time...A horse being taken out of a race for a surface matter it also could be that trainer/owner did not want to risk a horse,not necessarily that he was afraid of loosing.You own a good (or a bad horse) and the surface gives you second toughts you should not run...and why risk a million dollar horse in that case...I agree horses should run on all surfaces but for that they have to train on all surfaces for adaptation and remodeling and lets not forget when a horse loose "because"of the surface... the others in the race ran on the same ...if the horse was not conditionned to run on it then the trainer lost the race not the horse...and if the horse is just incapable of running,lets say in the mud"then he should have been scratched,again trainer responsability...
The sport and industry survive not only because of the champions that are remembered forever but also because of the losers that are so easy to forget...
-
Shammy Davis
- Chef de Race: Classic
- Posts: 4451
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:23 am
Patuxet posted:
You know it is fair to say RA doesn't deserve to be HOY, but as far as Jess Jackson is concerned, he has consistently voiced his concerns about synthetic tracks and its high probability of hind end injury. I've read a couple sources that support that. It is unfair for anyone to believe that Jackson was afraid to run RA against Z.
Recent conclusions have found that the new pro-ride surface at SA has less frequency of injury, but no one should blame Jess Jackson for being incredulous and looking after his filly.
There is no doubt in my mind that "Z" should be HOY, but I wouldn't take Jess Jackson to the cleaners over it.
Mahubah writes: " Horses are supposed to run on all kinds of surfaces."
Good point. Tell it to Jess Jackson and the Rachel apologists!
You know it is fair to say RA doesn't deserve to be HOY, but as far as Jess Jackson is concerned, he has consistently voiced his concerns about synthetic tracks and its high probability of hind end injury. I've read a couple sources that support that. It is unfair for anyone to believe that Jackson was afraid to run RA against Z.
Recent conclusions have found that the new pro-ride surface at SA has less frequency of injury, but no one should blame Jess Jackson for being incredulous and looking after his filly.
There is no doubt in my mind that "Z" should be HOY, but I wouldn't take Jess Jackson to the cleaners over it.
In a perfect world they'd both be on for co HOY, but the NTRA's not going to do that. My reason for giving the nod to Zenyatta is ( and this is after watching RA's races again ) Z gave 15 lbs to the 2nd place finisher in one of her races. None of the older horses RA beat in the Woodward ran in any of the BC races and Z beat the 3 yr olds that RA beat going a farther distance.
winds
winds