Milwaukee Brew's Stud Fee At $12,500

[reenci]

you are correct.. forgot about the amount of mares Frank breeds of his own to his own stallions. I just think $12,500 is too much when he stood at $7,500 in 09 nothing could warrant that much of a jump. If anything alot of the U.S. operations have lowered their stud fee's to offset the hurting economy/industry. We paid $15,000 for E Dubai in 09 now he is at $10,000. Our industry is one that is dependant on people having disposable income & right now there aren't many who have disposable income.

frank has always been a dreamer.....i will wager that he will have most of the mares that visit MB.........what a joke he is.

[Quinn]

This stallion is brutally overpriced. The yearling sales average was only $8700 and the median was a lowly $2000. I don't think Stronach really cares if he gets outside mares.......these stallions are in Ontario to help him comply with the residency requirements. Any of his mares parachuting into Ontario just prior to foaling can now be bred back to his Ontario stallions to stay onside of the new rules. Frank has his sights set on dominating the lucrative restricted stakes program with homebreds.

[Jane]

Adena and Gardiner must think the Canadian breeders are stupid. No way could I justify paying that kind of stud fee for those kind of sales numbers, might as well just burn my money for fun. Then to top it off didn't we just see Adena dump about 60 mares in foal to MB this year for peanuts? Tell me again why I'm lucky to get the chance to breed to him for 12,500..

[westover]

good point Jane, I do know it was Adena that set the price.. as i did my standard "whine" ... lol to them...[/b]

[Jane]

Oh I have no doubt that Adena set the price, it has their logic written all over it. It just seems like the stallions who you could actually make a case for breeding to in Ontario are being managed by persons living in the past. The industry is in a crisis, you can't even recover your stud fees when selling your sale prepped yearlings today and somehow Adena figures they are in the drivers seat and will raise the stud fees. No sir, not for my money!

[dublino]

Milwaukee Brew is No 5 on the third season sires list.
Below him in 6th and 7th are Harlans Holiday and Macho Uno at $25k.
Also in 8th for a mere $25k is Mineshaft.

If you are going to slate the Brew feel free to add your thoughts on the fees for the above mentioned stallions.

[Fair Play]

Milwaukee Brew is No 5 on the third season sires list.
Below him in 6th and 7th are Harlans Holiday and Macho Uno at $25k.
Also in 8th for a mere $25k is Mineshaft.

If you are going to slate the Brew feel free to add your thoughts on the fees for the above mentioned stallions.

You must look to where the Milwaukee Brew offspring made their earnings.

[dublino]

You must look to where the Milwaukee Brew offspring made their earnings.

Which was?

[Quinn]

Dublino: my thoughts on the other 3rd crop sires are as follows:
Macho Uno :yearling sales average 37000; median 27500
Mineshaft: Yearling sale average 63000; median 36000
Harlans Holiday average 68000; median 50000
Milwaukee Brew average 8700; median 2000

Obviously Milwaukee Brew is not a commercial sire. Breeders who breed to race must make up their own minds on the merits of paying $12500 for MB. Personally if I was looking for a son of Wild Again I'd be going to Whiskey Wisdom for $1500. But then Mr Stronach is counting on the lucrative Ontario sires restrictive racing program to convince Canadian breeders to pay this hefty stud fee.

[Gallop58]

dublino wrote: "Which was?"

For fun I took a quick peak to actually check where the notable MBs are running. Anyone know which of the group aren't Adena Breds?

Progeny Earnings
and Starts

Ginger Brew $970,311
Woodbine 11/07/09 Race 6 Maple Leaf Stakes
Keeneland 10/11/09 Race 9 Juddmonte Spinster Stakes - Gr.1
Woodbine 8/15/09 Race 6 Belle Mahone Stakes
Woodbine 7/11/09 Race 8 Dance Smartly Stakes - Gr.2
Gulfstream Park 3/29/09 Race 9 Rampart Stakes - Gr.2
Tampa Bay 2/14/09 Race 9 Endeavour Stakes - Gr.3
Gulfstream Park 1/11/09 Race 9 Marshua's River Stakes
Woodbine 11/09/08 Race 4 Jammed Lovely Stakes
Woodbine 6/22/08 Race 9 Queen's Plate Stakes
Woodbine 6/08/08 Race 8 Woodbine Oaks
Calder 4/26/08 Race 8 Calder Oaks
Gulfstream Park 3/15/08 Race 8 Allowance
Gulfstream Park 2/16/08 Race 9 Allowance
Gulfstream Park 1/09/08 Race 4 Allowance
Woodbine 10/26/07 Race 3 Maiden Special Weight

Milwaukee Appeal $965,903
Aqueduct 11/28/09 Race 8 Gazelle Stakes - Gr.1
Woodbine 11/15/09 Race 9 Jammed Lovely Stakes
Woodbine 9/26/09 Race 6 Selene Stakes - Gr.3
Saratoga 8/22/09 Race 10 Alabama Stakes - Gr.1
Fort Erie 7/12/09 Race 8 Prince of Wales Stakes
Woodbine 6/21/09 Race 9 Queen's Plate Stakes
Woodbine 6/07/09 Race 9 Woodbine Oaks Presented by Budweiser
Woodbine 5/17/09 Race 8 La Lorgnette Stakes
Woodbine 4/19/09 Race 6 Star Shoot Stakes
Woodbine 11/30/08 Race 8 Ontario Lassie Stakes
Woodbine 11/01/08 Race 6 Princess Elizabeth Stakes
Woodbine 9/14/08 Race 6 Natalma Stakes - Gr.3
Woodbine 8/20/08 Race 2 Allowance
Woodbine 7/25/08 Race 1 Maiden Claiming
Woodbine 7/10/08 Race 1 Maiden Claiming


Peach Brew $300,852
Aqueduct 11/28/09 Race 8 Gazelle Stakes - Gr.1 Chart
Remington Park 11/09/09 Race 8 Allowance Optional Claiming Chart
Remington Park 10/11/09 Race 8 Remington Park Oaks Chart
Remington Park 9/26/09 Race 7 Oklahoma Classics Distaff Stakes Chart
Arlington Park 9/07/09 Race 9 Pucker Up Stakes - Gr.3 Chart
Arlington Park 7/18/09 Race 9 Arlington Oaks - Gr.3 Chart
Prairie Meadows 6/26/09 Race 8 Iowa Oaks - Gr.3 Chart
Arlington Park 5/23/09 Race 8 American 1000 Guineas Stakes Chart
Arlington Park 5/02/09 Race 11 Double Delta Stakes Chart
Oaklawn Park 4/11/09 Race 7 Instant Racing Stakes Chart
Oaklawn Park 3/15/09 Race 9 Honeybee Stakes - Gr.3 Chart
Oaklawn Park 2/15/09 Race 9 Martha Washington Stakes Chart
Remington Park 11/16/08 Race 5 Cimarron Stakes Chart
Remington Park 10/18/08 Race 7 E. L. Gaylord Memorial Stakes Chart
Remington Park 9/27/08 Race 3 Oklahoma Classics Lassie Stakes Chart
Remington Park 9/01/08 Race 7 Allowance Chart
Lone Star 7/26/08 Race 10 Silver Spur Stakes Chart
Lone Star 6/28/08 Race 7 Maiden Special Weight Chart



Milwaukee Miracle $211,130
Louisiana Downs 8/01/09 Race 6 Louisiana Cup Derby
Evangeline 7/04/09 Race 6 B. B. Sixty Rayburn Memorial Stakes
Evangeline 6/13/09 Race 9 Acclaim Stakes
Fair Grounds 3/28/09 Race 8 Crescent City Derby
Fair Grounds 2/28/09 Race 7 Gentilly Stakes
Delta Downs 2/07/09 Race 6 Premier Night Prince Stakes
Delta Downs 1/16/09 Race 9 Triple Sec Stakes
Delta Downs 11/19/08 Race 7 Allowance
Louisiana Downs 10/18/08 Race 10 Gate Dancer Stakes
Louisiana Downs 9/05/08 Race 8 Maiden Special Weight
Louisiana Downs 8/17/08 Race 5 Maiden Special Weight

Salomea $178,270
Woodbine 11/12/09 Race 8 Claiming
Woodbine 11/04/09 Race 6 Claiming
Woodbine 10/03/09 Race 2 Claiming
Woodbine 9/19/09 Race 3 Claiming
Woodbine 8/14/09 Race 7 Claiming
Woodbine 7/02/09 Race 3 Claiming
Woodbine 6/14/09 Race 9 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 5/16/09 Race 4 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 5/03/09 Race 6 Claiming
Woodbine 11/23/08 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 11/08/08 Race 3 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 10/11/08 Race 3 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 9/26/08 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 9/13/08 Race 3 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 8/30/08 Race 7 Ontario Colleen Stakes
Woodbine 8/04/08 Race 4 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 4/27/08 Race 7 Fury Stakes
Oaklawn Park 4/11/08 Race 9 Prima Donna Stakes
Oaklawn Park 3/16/08 Race 9 Honeybee Stakes - Gr.3
Oaklawn Park 3/02/08 Race 9 Allowance
Woodbine 12/05/07 Race 7 Ontario Lassie Stakes
Woodbine 11/16/07 Race 8 Allowance
Woodbine 11/03/07 Race 1 Maiden Claiming
Woodbine 9/30/07 Race 6 Maiden Special Weight
Woodbine 9/09/07 Race 2 Maiden Special Weight
Woodbine 8/24/07 Race 2 Maiden Special Weight


Milwaukee Fun $160,440
Charles Town 10/17/09 Race 8 West Virginia Breeders' Classic Stakes
Charles Town 10/04/09 Race 8 Allowance
Charles Town 9/10/09 Race 7 Allowance
Charles Town 8/27/09 Race 8 Allowance Optional Claiming
Charles Town 6/26/09 Race 7 Allowance
Charles Town 5/23/09 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Mountaineer 4/21/09 Race 9 Allowance
Charles Town 3/27/09 Race 8 Allowance
Charles Town 2/27/09 Race 4 Allowance
Charles Town 12/21/08 Race 8 Allowance
Charles Town 11/22/08 Race 7 A Huevo Stakes
Charles Town 10/18/08 Race 5 West Virginia Lottery Breeders' Classic Stakes
Mountaineer 9/29/08 Race 4 Allowance
Charles Town 9/19/08 Race 8 Millard Harrell Memorial Stakes
Charles Town 8/24/08 Race 7 Allowance
Charles Town 8/09/08 Race 8 Robert G. Leavitt Memorial Stakes
Charles Town 7/20/08 Race 7 Allowance
Charles Town 7/05/08 Race 6 Allowance
Charles Town 11/10/07 Race 9 Tri-State Futurity
Charles Town 9/29/07 Race 8 Dr. Ernest Benner Stakes
Charles Town 9/16/07 Race 3 Maiden Special Weight


Jungle Brew $154,604
Gulfstream Park 1/23/09 Race 8 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 10/19/08 Race 9 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 9/10/08 Race 6 Allowance
Woodbine 7/27/08 Race 1 Maiden Special Weight
Woodbine 6/22/08 Race 9 Queen's Plate Stakes
Woodbine 6/01/08 Race 2 Maiden Special Weight
Woodbine 5/04/08 Race 9 Maiden Special Weight



Brewtiful Girl $149,202
Woodbine 11/08/09 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 10/22/09 Race 6 Allowance Optional Claiming
Fort Erie 8/02/09 Race 6 Allowance
Woodbine 7/10/09 Race 10 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 6/24/09 Race 4 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 5/09/09 Race 6 Allowance Optional Claiming
Woodbine 4/18/09 Race 7 Allowance
Woodbine 4/04/09 Race 10 Allowance
Laurel Park 3/30/08 Race 6 Claiming
Aqueduct 3/02/08 Race 3 Claiming
Laurel Park 1/23/08 Race 8 Allowance
Charles Town 1/05/08 Race 7 Allowance
Laurel Park 12/15/07 Race 2 Allowance Optional Claiming
Laurel Park 11/29/07 Race 6 Allowance Optional Claiming
Laurel Park 11/09/07 Race 6 Allowance Optional Claiming
Delaware Park 5/27/07 Race 1 Maiden Special Weight
Delaware Park 5/06/07 Race 4 Maiden Special Weight
Pimlico 4/20/07 Race 1 Maiden Special Weight


Homemade Brew $128,220
Hollywood Park 5/03/09 Race 1 Claiming
Santa Anita 4/15/09 Race 1 Claiming
Santa Anita 3/21/09 Race 4 Claiming
Santa Anita 3/04/09 Race 5 Claiming
Santa Anita 2/06/09 Race 1 Claiming
Santa Anita 1/15/09 Race 5 Claiming
Santa Anita 12/29/08 Race 4 Claiming
Hollywood Park 11/15/08 Race 6 Claiming
Oak Tree 10/16/08 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Del Mar 8/23/08 Race 7 Allowance Optional Claiming
Hollywood Park 7/04/08 Race 8 Flawlessly Stakes
Hollywood Park 6/22/08 Race 3 Allowance Optional Claiming
Hollywood Park 5/11/08 Race 8 Railbird Stakes - Gr.3
Hollywood Park 4/25/08 Race 5 Allowance Optional Claiming
Santa Anita 2/29/08 Race 5 Allowance
Santa Anita 1/31/08 Race 1 Maiden Claiming
Hollywood Park 11/28/07 Race 4 Maiden Claiming
Oak Tree 11/02/07 Race 8 Maiden Claiming


Dicey D J $122,935
Meadowlands 10/18/08 Race 8 P. G. Johnson Stakes
Monmouth Park 8/02/08 Race 9 Crank It Up Stakes
Delaware Park 7/06/08 Race 5 Allowance Optional Claiming
Monmouth Park 6/22/08 Race 8 Anderson Fowler Stakes
Pimlico 5/03/08 Race 9 HookedontheFeelin Stakes
Gulfstream Park 4/19/08 Race 4 Allowance Optional Claiming
Gulfstream Park 2/22/08 Race 7 Allowance
Gulfstream Park 1/09/08 Race 4 Allowance
Saratoga 7/25/07 Race 9 Schuylerville Stakes - Gr.3
Belmont Park 7/04/07 Race 3 Maiden Special Weight

Milwaukee Action $99,760
Philadelphia Park 11/29/09 Race 9 Claiming
Philadelphia Park 11/17/09 Race 3 Starter Allowance
Philadelphia Park 10/25/09 Race 8 Starter Allowance
Philadelphia Park 10/03/09 Race 2 Claiming
Philadelphia Park 9/05/09 Race 3 Claiming
Philadelphia Park 8/01/09 Race 4 Claiming
Philadelphia Park 7/05/09 Race 7 Starter Allowance
Philadelphia Park 6/21/09 Race 6 Allowance
Philadelphia Park 5/12/09 Race 8 Starter Allowance
Philadelphia Park 4/04/09 Race 1 Maiden Claiming
Philadelphia Park 2/18/09 Race 5 Maiden Claiming
Philadelphia Park 1/03/09 Race 5 Maiden Claiming
Philadelphia Park 4/06/08 Race 5 Maiden Claiming
Philadelphia Park 3/17/08 Race 6 Maiden Claiming
Philadelphia Park 2/17/08 Race 6 Maiden Special Weight


Aspetuck Hill $91,351
Woodbine 11/18/09 Race 7 Allowance
Woodbine 10/23/09 Race 8 Allowance
Woodbine 10/09/09 Race 7 Claiming
Woodbine 9/06/09 Race 7 Allowance
Woodbine 8/23/09 Race 9 Allowance
Woodbine 7/31/09 Race 2 Claiming
Woodbine 7/02/09 Race 4 Claiming
Calder 5/24/09 Race 9 Allowance
Calder 5/18/09 Race 8 Allowance Optional Claiming
Calder 5/11/09 Race 5 Starter Allowance
Calder 5/03/09 Race 8 Claiming
Gulfstream Park 4/04/09 Race 4 Starter Allowance
Gulfstream Park 3/14/09 Race 6 Starter Allowance
Gulfstream Park 3/07/09 Race 5 Starter Allowance
Calder 12/22/08 Race 6 Starter Allowance
Calder 12/13/08 Race 11 Starter Allowance
Calder 11/29/08 Race 8 Live Oak GTOBA Debutante Stakes
Calder 11/14/08 Race 8 Allowance
Calder 10/25/08 Race 9 Allowance
Calder 10/17/08 Race 6 Allowance
Calder 10/03/08 Race 7 Maiden Claiming
Calder 9/14/08 Race 10 Maiden Claiming


Milwaukee Queen $88,990
Churchill Downs 11/18/09 Race 8 Starter Allowance
Keeneland 10/28/09 Race 5 Starter Allowance
Philadelphia Park 10/19/09 Race 9 Allowance Optional Claiming
Presque Isle Downs 8/30/09 Race 5 Starter Allowance
Presque Isle Downs 8/01/09 Race 5 Starter Allowance
Presque Isle Downs 7/19/09 Race 3 Starter Allowance
Presque Isle Downs 7/01/09 Race 7 Allowance
Presque Isle Downs 5/23/09 Race 8 Allowance
Keeneland 4/03/09 Race 4 Claiming
Turfway Park 3/14/09 Race 9 Claiming
Mountaineer 3/03/09 Race 8 Claiming
Turfway Park 2/19/09 Race 3 Maiden Claiming
Turfway Park 2/07/09 Race 1 Maiden Claiming

[walaa]

Just trying to figure out, at which track, regional or otherwise, will the people I pay money for the bills not accept money won by horses, because of which track they won at, or which feed store will not accept money to pay the bills for horses at the farm, because it was won "regionally" or "claimer" etc. Who cares where it was won, money is money unless you are reading a sales catalog, where my recent experience says if a horse won 200,000 under the 1st dam, in regional company, people scoff, it doesnt mean ANYWHERE near as much as offspring winning 20,000 in "open company" black type etc. I say Fuueeyy. Money won anywhere means more to me than less money won anywhere, just my thought

[westover]

I really like the horse.. & i do feel he will be quite popular here. We breed to sell & i look at Bold Executive who stands for $15,000 and he is a pretty solid bet. I have always found Gardiner to be quite fair with their stud fee's and they are terrific to deal with.

I have to make the decision on behalf of my owners and i just have a hard time wrapping my head around a $5000 increase. I think thats the part for me that is hard is that i love the horse, but i feel they are trying to really stick it to people at a time when people are really struggling & everyone else has reduced their fee's.

I love Whiskey Wisdom by the way.. agree'd was sad he left here.

[dublino]

Dublino: my thoughts on the other 3rd crop sires are as follows:
Macho Uno :yearling sales average 37000; median 27500
Mineshaft: Yearling sale average 63000; median 36000
Harlans Holiday average 68000; median 50000
Milwaukee Brew average 8700; median 2000

Obviously Milwaukee Brew is not a commercial sire. Breeders who breed to race must make up their own minds on the merits of paying $12500 for MB. Personally if I was looking for a son of Wild Again I'd be going to Whiskey Wisdom for $1500. But then Mr Stronach is counting on the lucrative Ontario sires restrictive racing program to convince Canadian breeders to pay this hefty stud fee.

And this is bad because?
Hypothetically you own a mare, she is an A+ nick with Milwaukee Brew her family has done well with this cross etc its the logical mating on confirmation etc etc.

You breed the foal and sell it, it makes X$ you spent Y$ raring the foal and you lost Z$.
The foal goes to the track and wins $200K, this looks good then on your mares record of being a producer of a winner and over $200K.

Being a horse breeder doesn't this not give you some responsibility to do what is best for the horse and the breed and not what is just best for your pocket?

Forget the commercial market its a myth that is destroying the diversity in horse breeding, how many horses % wise actually make a profit?
Yes having medians and averages are all very well but they can actually disguise the truth.

[dublino]

dublino wrote: "Which was?"

For fun I took a quick peak to actually check where the notable MBs are running. Anyone know which of the group aren't Adena Breds?

Progeny Earnings
and Starts

Ginger Brew $970,311

Milwaukee Appeal $965,903

Milwaukee Fun $160,440

Jungle Brew $154,604

Brewtiful Girl $149,202

Homemade Brew $128,220

Dicey D J $122,935

Milwaukee Action $99,760

Aspetuck Hill $91,351

Milwaukee Queen $88,990

Wow what a bad sire 2 horses a stakes placing away from being millionaires.

With all them horses earning so much money Mr Stronach hasn't a clue what he is doing does he?

And all for a $12,500 stud fee, but no lets go commercial where do I get the Green Monkeys and Mr Seguichcis offspring???

[westover]

Dublino (love the name) you raise some very good points. I have never been one, despite the fact that we sell, to breed commercial. I feel producing a race horse is and should be #1. My only beef with MB is not him its that Adena cranked the price by 5 G's, on what should have been a pretty lateral move from Florida to Ontario. I don't begrudge anyone making a living it just seemed to me a real cash grab & quite honestly makes them look bad in times of hardship for breeders.