Hail To Reason size

b2w · Postby **b2w** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:22 pm

Just wondering....Hail To Reason was himself a quite a big guy himself and I've heard that he typically adds size and bone to the offspring. His sire Turn-To didnt have the best conformation (toed-out) which he passes on. Should inbreeding to these guys be avoided for the larger sized mares to minimize risk of huge foals? Just how big an issue could this be or am I being a bit tooo cautious.

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:59 pm

My recall of HTR might not be the best but I don't believe he was all that big. Maybe someone else can clarify this for you. Actually, STOP THE MUSIC, CURE THE BLUES, AMERICAN CHANCE were on the small size. TURN TO is probably 4 or 5 generations removed in that line now. I doubt if TURN TO did throw splay toed foals, that it is a problem today. The incidence of splay toe is fairly common throughout the TB, QH, and other light breeds no matter the line. There were a number of very fine HTR line stallions and the line has been overlooked in NA recently. Europe, Japan, and South American has shown an affinity for HTR. HALO line progeny were not large either.

DYNAFORMER, a ROBERTO colt, at 17 hands was the exception to HTR line progeny.

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:08 pm

Hail to Reason is a horse that usually adds size and bone to the mix. Lewis Michael is himself doubled to Hail to Reason 4x5, with Halo and Roberto in his pedigree, and his conformation and good size goes a long way to prove that.

This is a comment by Anne Peters from the Three Chimneys site about Lewis Michael. It is possible my memory of HTR is not so good. I've got a AMERICAN CHANCE stallion that is very small and looks exactly like his sire and grandsire.

Fireslam · Postby **Fireslam** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:43 am

From American Race Horses 1960:

Hail To Reason was an oversized, deep-hearted, narrow-bodied youngster, so growthy that a visitor, after making a casual inspection, might have guessed that he would develop his full potential by the time he was a 4 year old. But he began racing 3 months before he was actually two yeas of age.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:08 am

Rock Hard Ten is linebred to HTR and he's huge.

jagger · Postby **jagger** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:00 pm

vineyridge wrote:Rock Hard Ten is linebred to HTR and he's huge.

And beautiful.

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:44 pm

I'm starting to worry about memory. From STOP THE MUSIC thur CURE THE BLUES and AMERICAN CHANCE the line is not all that big. Wonder why?

Thank you all for getting me back on track, I'm a big fan of HTR. We've got a low end stakes winning AMERICAN CHANCE stallion standing privately here who is about 15 hands, but he throws some rather large foals.

If I had any memory, I would have figured out why.

b2w · Postby **b2w** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:04 pm

Thanks for the info.

Kris S ( Roberto) is quite big as well. There seems to be a few 'tall' genes in there somewhere. Looking at the pictures on the pedigree charts it seems Pharos was quite tall but his next few sons were quite 'normal' sized. Then we get to HTR and he seems to be passing his tall gene thru his sons+daughters.

There seems to be a pattern here.

EDIT

Hmmm... pharos doesnt seem that tall in this picture http://www.tbheritage.com/Portraits/Phalaris.html

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:04 pm

How would you analize Giacomo's size within this topic?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/giacomo2

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:48 pm

Giacomo's broodmare sire was STOP THE MUSIC and he was not a very large horse. I'm familiar w/CURE THE BLUES and AMERICAN CHANCE and they were not big. Frankly, I don't think HOLY BULL was too large, but I'm not sure.

b2w · Postby **b2w** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:46 am

zenyatta is 17h. Inbred to HTR via Roberto + Halo.

Jorge · Postby **Jorge** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:49 pm

Shammy Davis,

Thank you so much for the helpful comments.

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:27 pm

Jorge, you are welcome.

Shammy Davis · Postby **Shammy Davis** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:31 pm

b2w posted:

zenyatta is 17h. Inbred to HTR via Roberto + Halo.

You know I remember when HTR was running. I guess I just didn't think much about size then, but I'm at a loss where this size in ROBERTO line horses is coming from. Was TURN TO a large horse?

b2w · Postby **b2w** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:27 pm

Digging around in Google I found nothing that would suggest he himself was oversized - but some of his progeny was 17h+. This link gives some more details of Turn To (he was called Source Royal before his name was changed to Turn To).

(sorry link not working but it's mentioned in a book named 'Designing Speed in racehorse' on page 149-151 available in googlebooks.