Economy's Latest Victim

[madelyn]

Obama reminds me a bit of my darlin' old mum - except she was Irish Catholic, not Kenyan Muslim.. when I was taking all those business development and project management trips for my IBM Business Partner company she once commented I was lucky that all those big airfares and hotel bills went on my expense account (!?!) She was serious. I pointed out to her that I owned the company and so I "reimbursed" my own expense account. She found that unfathomable. I think Obama has no clue about accountability for debt.

Obama isn't Muslim. He's Baptist or Methodist I think.

Obama was a full practising muslim until he ran for president, and he had to change religions. A small price to pay for all of that power. He slipped up, once, in a public speech - something about converting his children, I think.

[zinn21]

Madelyn wrote:

"Obama was a full practising muslim until he ran for president,"

From Wikepedia:


[quote]He was baptized at the Trinity United Church of Christ in 1988 and was an active member there for two decades.[207] Obama resigned from Trinity during the Presidential campaign after controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright became public.[208] After a prolonged effort to find a church to attend regularly in Washington, complicated by security concerns among other issues, Obama announced in June 2009 that his primary place of worship would be the Evergreen Chapel at Camp David[/quote

[cng]

Madelyn wrote:

"Obama was a full practising muslim until he ran for president,"

From Wikepedia:

He was baptized at the Trinity United Church of Christ in 1988 and was an active member there for two decades.[207] Obama resigned from Trinity during the Presidential campaign after controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright became public.[208] After a prolonged effort to find a church to attend regularly in Washington, complicated by security concerns among other issues, Obama announced in June 2009 that his primary place of worship would be the Evergreen Chapel at Camp David[/quote

His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.

The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi. … Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only "for big communal events," not every Friday.

Recalling Obama's time in Indonesia, the Times account contains quotes that Obama "went to the mosque," and that he "was Muslim."
Paul Watson - Los Angeles Times

[Georgerz]

And if he was a Muslim, what is wrong with that? Is it against any law to be a Muslim?

[madelyn]

None, georgez, none At All. I was just pointing out the cultural differences between my my mum and Obama, at birth. However, they seem to share the same mystical misunderstandings about economics, that's all.

[Worksoplad]

and i hear by apoligize for going off track of this thread.

Your choice of words and grammar displays your education level, and therefore the value of everything you have said before on this thread on the economy of the United States.

[reenci]

and i hear by apoligize for going off track of this thread.

Your choice of words and grammar displays your education level, and therefore the value of everything you have said before on this thread on the economy of the United States.

excuse me teacher...oh we are in school again. i here bye apologize..... ....but you know what ...my moron vote counts just as much as your's.

[Shammy Davis]

Georgez: JMO but it looks like you always looking for fight regarding some moral, religous, political, or ethnic issue none of which has anything to do w/horses or horseracing. Why don't you say something equine related for a change? The same old "manure" you put out, just isn't equine anymore. Leave the world politic to some other site or board. We know what you think.

FYI, there is a section of this website set aside for these violatile subjects. You've found those boards before. Why don't you go there?

Better yet, if you insist on staying w/this thread offer a solution that might help the horse industry face the realities of its economic future.

The simple fact w/banks is that the equine industry is a high risk investment. On a list of things for the Executive Branch of our government (Republican, Democrat, or Independent,) to take care, the horse industry is probably at the bottom. Lenders, even w/bailouts, truly want collateral and for the most part agriculture across the board is up to its neck in debt.

No one should be surprised by the link and post that began this thread.

As far as the small TB breeder is concerned, I suggest a break away from the traditional state and national organizations and formation of a national small TB breeder cooperative. As I recall WV breeders have gone to something like this option. PA has done a great job of supporting the small breeder. Getting slots didn't hurt, but even if you don't like slots, money is going back into the industry.

Like the JC, large TB racing and breeding farms don't have the same problems that face the low end breeder. Cooperative networks tend to free up cash, allow for larger markets, and help the small producer w/surety related issues.

Who knows Georgez, you might say something that one us can go to the bank with.

[KBEquine]

As far as the small TB breeder is concerned, I suggest a break away from the traditional state and national organizations and formation of a national small TB breeder cooperative. As I recall WV breeders have gone to something like this option. PA has done a great job of supporting the small breeder. Getting slots didn't hurt, but even if you don't like slots, money is going back into the industry.

Like the JC, large TB racing and breeding farms don't have the same problems that face the low end breeder. Cooperative networks tend to free up cash, allow for larger markets, and help the small producer w/surety related issues.

First, thanks for trying to bring this thread back from one heck of a hijack.

Second, A national network of small breeders could be very helpful. In addition to possibly getting the kind of discounts that buying in quantity can provide, we could help each other sell horses, too.

Short of creating an actual organization, we could take a straw vote by joining a Yahoo group, intended to help breeders sell their weanlings, yearlings & 2 year olds & broodmares . . .

If enough people join, it would indicate the need for a more formal group. But before then --

There is a Sporthorse Alliance in the formative stages where people who mostly breed a few warmbloods each year have banded together for advertising & support. At the moment, just an email list exists and members who get inquiries from buyers -- but who don't have a horse that matches the buyers needs -- will post the buyers' needs on the list & other breeders contact the poster with their horse & contact information, which gets forwarded back to the potential buyer.

Which is great, as far as it goes.

But how about an e-list for both buyers & sellers -

One breeder would post: I just got a call from an owner/partnership who wants to race in PA & they are looking for a 2 y.o. PA-bred colt by either Ecclesiastic, Real Quiet, or Cat Thief (or from the family of Fabulous Strike, Great Hunter, or, well, Zenyatta). The colt needs to be eligible for the PA sires series. The trainer will be John X. The buyer's price range is: $xxxx. but for the right horse, would let the breeder keep 10% in partnership. Wants payment terms."

Or whatever.

Or the potential buyer could post the information him or herself.

Then breeders who have a horse that matches the request writes back & maybe, a sale occurs.

I thought it was an intriguing idea that I started a Yahoo Group today.

Group name, for anyone who wants to join:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Thor ... _Alliance/

(If this works, I'll probably also be asking for volunteers to be co-moderators & if it doesn't - at least I figured out how to create a Yahoo group.)

[Shammy Davis]

KBEquine: I wasn't aware of the sites you mentioned. I think they would be helpful if utilized w/in the TB community.

One of the problems that I see in my state VA is the broad expanse of breeds that the VA Horsemen try to accommodate, not to mention that the largest breed groups hold positions of authority on the state appointed board and have done relatively little to promote the industry.

I think a great deal of the problems are simply politics. Financing is one thing, but you have to have something to finance first.

JMO, but I think you have to be organized to lobby.

Interestingly, VA is an interesting sample. Considered a horse state, it has had a real difficult time over the past 40 years trying to enhance the stature of the industry. I think we take too much of hobbyist approach to the industry. TB and harness racing probably consumes 2 months out of a year at a facility equal to the best in the world that could easily handle 200 days plus if marketed properly for the long term. I have come to the conclusion that Colonial Downs and the state racing commission keep saying, we'll add a couple of days and see how we do. What they do is the same thing they did in the previous year w/2 additional days to spare.

Steeplechase and point-to-point are frequent and are charitable events in the spring and fall meant to be social and entertaining. You know the "dress up and be seen event." Some are well attended but for the most part most are not. For the horseman, it is fun but it is not profitable. Hunt clubs and groups are numerous, but the organizations are aged and do little to recruit younger members. Most riders participate to ride and know little about the sport or hounds.

Other breeds certainly have their events and the Horse Center at Lexington, VA is very nice and well managed.

All that being said, VA is the maid not the madam in the Mid-Atlantic. There are many other states facing the same problems. VA is just one example.

I think the dynamics of the industry from state to state has to be changed so that the small breeder makes more of impact on the market. The state bred programs are one avenue, but the tracks have to open the doors wider with longer meets and with larger purses and incentives. There is no reason to believe that the low end breeder can't produce horse that can race. They say that 70% of all races in NA are claiming. In VA, this idea is a challenge, because there is only 40 days of racing and reports from last year indicated that the breeders fund was severely depleted.

I would think that states IN, OH, DE, NJ, TX, NM, AZ, LA, and WA would have a better stab at this than VA, NC, and SC.

If I were 30 years younger I'd pursue something like this, but I'm not. I'm at the age where I just want to enjoy the horses. I've already lost a bundle money on them.

[kimberley mine]

Madelyn wrote:

"Obama was a full practising muslim until he ran for president,"

From Wikepedia:

He was baptized at the Trinity United Church of Christ in 1988 and was an active member there for two decades.[207] Obama resigned from Trinity during the Presidential campaign after controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright became public.[208] After a prolonged effort to find a church to attend regularly in Washington, complicated by security concerns among other issues, Obama announced in June 2009 that his primary place of worship would be the Evergreen Chapel at Camp David[/quote

His former Roman Catholic and Muslim teachers, along with two people who were identified by Obama's grade-school teacher as childhood friends, say Obama was registered by his family as a Muslim at both schools he attended. That registration meant that during the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class.

The childhood friends say Obama sometimes went to Friday prayers at the local mosque. "We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Zulfin Adi. … Obama's younger sister, Maya Soetoro, said in a statement released by the campaign that the family attended the mosque only "for big communal events," not every Friday.

Recalling Obama's time in Indonesia, the Times account contains quotes that Obama "went to the mosque," and that he "was Muslim."
Paul Watson - Los Angeles Times

It's worth noting that when one is married to a muslim man and living in a muslim country, and one has an 8yo child, the child will most likely be listed on enrollment as a muslim.

As an adult, Mr. Obama made different choices.

[zinn21]

Let me see if I have this thread right.. Banks have stopped lending to an industry with a business model that is a train wreck and it is Barak (alleged closet muslim because he was enrolled in a muslim institution as a child) Obama's fault.

And, let's see, Obama is an idiot because he is spending money like a drunken sailor, while he works on reviving a financial system on the verge of collapse under GWB's watch; reforms the biggest inflation culprit, health care, while the economy rebounds; the stock market rallies and his banking insurance fee gets criticized while esteemed former Fed chairman, Paul Volker calls the fee a "reasonable response"

Did I miss anything??

[Shammy Davis]

Zinn21: What you don't have right is what you are posting to this thread. If you want this thread to have legs, take it to the appropriate board. I for one am sick and tired of the unrelated equine posts that you and others are posting.

IMO, your political opinions belong on the Politics Board unless you can post relevant equine stuff w/it.

I noted that you didn't want to be lumped w/other so-called fanatics on another thread that caused one significant disappearance, but frankly to me, you are beginning to look like a twin.

[Fair Play]

I remember when the Egyptian Arabian market went into the toilet.

Grossly over inflated prices, super hype as to the fabulous value and prestige these animals possessed, dreams of wealthy lifestyles hobbnobbing with the rich and famous as your "job" (because once you owned a rare and exotic Egyptian Arabian you'd make SO much money and have SO much fun, you'd never need to work a day in your life any more!), lavish parties to invite more suckers to buy into the dream ... on and on it went ...

Has the same illusion been created about the TB racing world?

I don't think you can compare the two. I have never heard of multiple Arabian horses earning millions in a year, being syndicated, having six digit stud fees, or million dollar yearlings at auction. With TBs the hope and possiblity is always there that you'll get the next Seattle Slew, or Northern Dancer. I think of that Arabian thing as more like the other exotic livestock that came and went: $50,000 minis, $2000 hedgehogs, ostriches, emus, pigeons, etc. The earning potential is only available to the guys who thought it up. Even in this market, you can still get a runner, as long as you don't have to sell it young.

[Sock Monkey]

I remember when the Egyptian Arabian market went into the toilet.
....
Has the same illusion been created about the TB racing world?

No, I don't think so. Because, like Fair Play pointed out - it really isn't all illusion - TBs can and do make money. The problem is that it is extremely difficult to make money.

I think the real problem is that a: racehorses tend to be a luxury item for the end user and b: the costs associated with racehorses have outpaced purses making it too difficult to be profitable most of the time.