SA vs. US race riding style

[mightyhijames]

i've been watching some of the south america tracks lately and noticed a few differences in the riding styles. i've seen SA riders just vault onto the horses, there's not a leg up from the trainer, whoever. they rarely use a pony to post. most ride w/o irons during warmup with their arms flapping and hands in the air. as a result, a lot of the horses are traveling w/their mouths wide open from the bit pressure and noses in the air. it also appears that the SA jocks don't use the whip nearly as much as US riders. just thought it's kind of interesting.

[karenkarenn]

Dont worry its not just S.A. that has jockeys do that. Alot of them do that here too. I wouldnt say that its just S.A. jocks, Im pretty sure its United States wide.

[Crystal]

Karen, turn on TVG and watch NA racing and you will see overall Jockeys in the US are a lot lighter on the mouth and stick heavy. They also ride in a much different manner then other foreign jocks. I hope you notice that when James said S.A. he ment South American. When you said Nationwide, I wasn't sure.

[karenkarenn]

Crystal
thats the thing about T.V. it tells you what to see, instead of seeing for yourself. The T.V. shows you what you should see through its opionion.We have racing here, and in other states that border.
There are alot of heavy handed, free loosley moving jockeys that tear into a horses mouth too here in the United States.
I have been nationwide personally to the tracks, seen jocks of all DIFFERENT RIDING STYLES, So when I say United States I mean United states.
Not all jocks anywere do one thing. Some are bad and some are good.
P.S. since I have TVG I know which tracks they dont cover, their coverage isnt exactly worth enough to be mentioned. You want to get the best veiw- be there at the tracks, behind the scenes, workouts ect.
Secondly
What part of S.A. doesnt = South America in my post?

[mightyhijames]

ive seen a lot of live US racing myself and don't think that the warmup styles even begin to compare, imo. i've noticed one or two SA jocks that seem to have adopted, to some degree, the US style during warmup and gallop out but that's about it.

[tbrace]

The key here is that US riders are stick heavy - compared to South America, Europe, etc.

There is no question it hurts our sport in the US in terms of attracting new fans.

Many are put off by the heavy use of the bat, and will not return to the races once they see heavy whipping going on in many cases to no gain, and to no apparent purpose.

[mightyhijames]

The key here is that US riders are stick heavy - compared to South America, Europe, etc.

There is no question it hurts our sport in the US in terms of attracting new fans.

Many are put off by the heavy use of the bat, and will not return to the races once they see heavy whipping going on in many cases to no gain, and to no apparent purpose.

i agree w/you 100% about use of the whip but the heavy hands of the SA riders is painful to watch if you understand what you're seeing. and then the winning horse/rider stands there while connections have a pic taken in groups, individually, whatever, until they've all had a turn. very different from what i'm used to seeing in the U.S.

[Shammy Davis]

You know this is a very interesting thread. Many years ago, I read a book on riding styles as they relate to a horseman's work. Can't remember the title now, but I do recall a chapter on the SA cowboy. There was one country, I'm thinking Bolivia or Chile, but I'm not sure, where the cowboys actually ride seated in a saddle, but the saddle has "no" girth. I also recall some discussion of some Portugese riders using similar tack. Herding cattle was done with long polls rather than whips or lariats.

The farthest south I've been on this continent is Mexico, but having seen Mexican cowboys ride, I would not be surprised at anything they do on a horse.

Another consideration maybe that jockeys in SA don't necessarily get formal training as riders. We are familiar w/jockey schools in Panama, Puerto Rico, Columbia and some of their graduates that have excelled on American tracks, but IMO that many SA jockeys learn as a result of working at the track or for trainers.

It has always amazed me that their is really no formal schools in the US, other than the KY Community College Program, to train young horsemen and women to work in the racing industry.

The British Racing School is totally subsidized by the government. It is tuition free. I think the Irish has a similar program.

[Jorge]

In PR, the jockey program is channeled through a special vocacional high school diploma program. The same specialty goes for music programs, same for arts.

[Shammy Davis]

Jorge: I'm sure you are aware that two nominees of the three apprentice riders at the Eclipse awards were graduates of the PR Jockey School. How wonderful. I believe the winner Reyes was a graduate.

I am aware that back in the 50's there was an industry school in NJ. It is no longer in operation. There is or was a jockey/racing industry school also in Canada. I think that one was sponsored by either the province or national government. It might have been connected to McGill Univ. or another college system.

I think that one of the biggest problems facing the industry is lack of testerone. Men are just not getting into the equine line of work. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against women taking a more prominent role, but if you think about it, there are lots of opportunities for both men and women and it would nice if men caught on to that fact.

[Hops]

A friend visited Argentina last year. Horses there are exercised in the morning in bareback pads!

[wilf]

There are two replies to this thread that I can supply. Firstly as far as warm ups are concerned the only pony people pre-race outside of North America are the outriders who are there to help any rider in trouble. The tracks are usually much bigger and the horses gallop strongly down to the start and walk around until they are loaded into the gate. South American horses are galloped without a saddle and the riders spring up themselves to mount up. They only have saddles to breeze which confuses many imports upon arriving here and they are tacked up even just to jog. I read once that Bayakoa had to be vanned off the track in the morning as she would refuse to move under tack ;of course she eventually understood what was required and the rest is history. As far as riders being on the horses mouths I feel that it has little to do with jockey schools but more about the split times of racing in each region. American races are generally run at a much faster early pace hence the lack of mouth contact and the overuse of the whip at the end. Elsewhere horses rate early and fly home and to be honest most of the time the riders are just slapping the horses just to keep in time with a horses stride and wind them up for a finish.

[Crystal]

Shammy, Arizona's Racetrack Industry Program and the Darley internship is the closest thing I have come across in the way of formal training.. One helps get you a degree and the other makes you an intern for 3 years with one of the richest stables across the globe.. but I bet the contacts you would get from it would put you on a different playing field.

[Shammy Davis]

Wilf: Wasn't Ron McAnaly very successful w/SA horses?

Crystal: Formal education programs, other than farriery and vet tech schools, are very hard to come by in the US.

I've always been taken by the fact that veterinarians in our area, save a few, are from urban environs. I figure that if they grew up in the country around livestock they concluded early on that there is an easier way to make a living, ie. small animal clinics.