...but where's the proof? 
jockeys mutiny against Michael Gill
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
i have a problem with this ruling M GILL off......my problem is this...when a track can single someone out and just rule them off...what stops them from ruling anyone off ...for any reason ?...with no specified evidence...what are we in a dictatorship ?....this is dangerous......I IN NO MEANS BACK M. GILL....there's smoke......but where is the fire ? show me the proof...im tired of back room deals and secret meetings.....show the evidence for christ sake ! this is not RUSSIA. ....oh dont worry i dont think he's a saint by a longshot.....but show me some proof ......ANY ONE HAVE ANY?......im all ear's......ive heard he give's alot of his claims a tie back operation......that seems like butchery to me. ...but where's the proof?
...but where's the proof? A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
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Blue feather
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Were is the "Due Process". I agree with you reenci. There is a ton of unanswered questions and alot of speculation, but Gill has been hung without a trial. It appears that he is a businessman above a horseman. It also appears that this inflames many people. I don't agree with this approach. Penn National track condition certainly should be in question considering its troubled past as far as safety. To exclude this possiblity is premature and unfair.
It does look bad for Gill but he, like anyone of us, deserves "Due Process".
It does look bad for Gill but he, like anyone of us, deserves "Due Process".
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vineyridge
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I'm not going to say anything about Mike Gill. He pays his bills which is more then a good percentage of owners do not do. He is not a man to blow sunshine and rainbows up penn nationals ass which is good.
He is making one point which I (somewhat) support in that even without him around, horses will still breakdown @ penn. It is a bottom level track and will always been known as such. Horses will break down everywhere, so don't think I'm just saying Oh it's just because PN sucks. They did make the effort to resurface the track (TWICE). But Really ... I don't see Baffart applying for stalls.. How many Lukas horses are shipping in for 4k bottom-night racing???
I remember the Rockingham Park-days-of-Gill.. I also remember the loving term of referring to Penn National as "The Pig Penn"..
He is making one point which I (somewhat) support in that even without him around, horses will still breakdown @ penn. It is a bottom level track and will always been known as such. Horses will break down everywhere, so don't think I'm just saying Oh it's just because PN sucks. They did make the effort to resurface the track (TWICE). But Really ... I don't see Baffart applying for stalls.. How many Lukas horses are shipping in for 4k bottom-night racing???
I remember the Rockingham Park-days-of-Gill.. I also remember the loving term of referring to Penn National as "The Pig Penn"..-
Shammy Davis
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We've all made the statement that there are more owners/trainers who are operating on the margins.
The comment about Penn National banning Gill being a band aid approach is applicable.
It is time that the industry start looking at a nationwide central authority where everyone is treated the same across NA.
IMO, the JC, BC, and NTRA, to name a few, will not entertain this unless there is a grassroots movement calling for it.
I personally applaud Wilf for what he is saying and doing, but, that being said, it is unfair that trainers/owners, like Wilf, that play by the rules have to take trainers/owners to task that are not playing by the rules.
The backstretch is a difficult place to work anyway you look at it and when you add animus to that equation the workplace often becomes intolerable. I know of no comfortable or pleasant way to place another person on report because they are breaking the rules.
Sysonby posted:
Anyway you look at it, Gill's horses are problematic no matter where they end up. If another trainer/owner picks them up, the jockeys will know. If they go to the rescue system they will burden an already overflowing "unwanted" horse problem. Having volunteered w/rescue organizations, the problem is monumental. Actually the TB rescue system is one of the best, but those of us who follow the problem realize that most OTTB placements have become more infrequent as the economy continues in recession.
The comment about Penn National banning Gill being a band aid approach is applicable.
It is time that the industry start looking at a nationwide central authority where everyone is treated the same across NA.
IMO, the JC, BC, and NTRA, to name a few, will not entertain this unless there is a grassroots movement calling for it.
I personally applaud Wilf for what he is saying and doing, but, that being said, it is unfair that trainers/owners, like Wilf, that play by the rules have to take trainers/owners to task that are not playing by the rules.
The backstretch is a difficult place to work anyway you look at it and when you add animus to that equation the workplace often becomes intolerable. I know of no comfortable or pleasant way to place another person on report because they are breaking the rules.
Sysonby posted:
Are these horses just blackballed because they were once owned by Gill or do the "unsafe" runners become OK to race with someone else's silks attached to them?
It will be interesting to see what shakes out from all of this.
Anyway you look at it, Gill's horses are problematic no matter where they end up. If another trainer/owner picks them up, the jockeys will know. If they go to the rescue system they will burden an already overflowing "unwanted" horse problem. Having volunteered w/rescue organizations, the problem is monumental. Actually the TB rescue system is one of the best, but those of us who follow the problem realize that most OTTB placements have become more infrequent as the economy continues in recession.
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Patuxet
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Crystal writes: "He is making one point which I (somewhat) support in that even without him around, horses will still breakdown @ penn. It is a bottom level track and will always been known as such. Horses will break down everywhere, so don't think I'm just saying Oh it's just because PN sucks. They did make the effort to resurface the track (TWICE). But Really ."
Gill owned five of the 21 horses which broke down during races at Penn National in 2009 and during the first month of ’10. His breakdown ratio was one per 208 starts.
The total number of starters at Penn National in the 13 months was 18,410, for a breakdown ratio of one per 877 starts.
Without Gill’s horses, the track had 17,317 starters and a breakdown ratio of 1 per 1,085 starts.
I have to believe that there are some vets complicit -- either actively or passively -- in this whole sad affair.
Gill owned five of the 21 horses which broke down during races at Penn National in 2009 and during the first month of ’10. His breakdown ratio was one per 208 starts.
The total number of starters at Penn National in the 13 months was 18,410, for a breakdown ratio of one per 877 starts.
Without Gill’s horses, the track had 17,317 starters and a breakdown ratio of 1 per 1,085 starts.
I have to believe that there are some vets complicit -- either actively or passively -- in this whole sad affair.
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V
reenci wrote:i have a problem with this ruling M GILL off......my problem is this...when a track can single someone out and just rule them off...what stops them from ruling anyone off ...for any reason ?...with no specified evidence...what are we in a dictatorship ?....this is dangerous......I IN NO MEANS BACK M. GILL....there's smoke......but where is the fire ? show me the proof...im tired of back room deals and secret meetings.....show the evidence for christ sake ! this is not RUSSIA. ....oh dont worry i dont think he's a saint by a longshot.....but show me some proof ......ANY ONE HAVE ANY?......im all ear's......ive heard he give's alot of his claims a tie back operation......that seems like butchery to me.
As far as I can see, any track can give or not give any trainer/owner stalls they like. In twenty years, I have seen many people denied stalls for many reasons (usually because better horses applied, bigger names, the trainer had too few starts per stall the year before, lost a big owner, or whined too much to the management or stall guy). It is not one's right to be granted stalls. If he doesn't like it, he can buy his own track.
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see...we need due process.....remember a long long time ago when the nazi's came for the jewish people .....and others....they were slaughtered like cattle or worse....and no one spoke up at the start of it ?....well what happens when they come for YOU ???....yes i understand it's private property....but where does it say you give up your rights as a citizen of the united states ?....ITS NOT RIGHT....people have been black balled for years at tracks...some with good reason some with none....all i ask is show me or your PROOF...and if they have it...HANGEM HIGH ! this way some guy or gal who trains and is a member of the HBPA who is thought by management to be a thorn in their ass is not singled out and tossed....again there is a lot of smoke around M.G.....but how come his case in NY was settled out of court ??....BEWARE OF ABSOLUTE POWER...it always corrupts. and again not to keep repeating myself but there is a lot of smoke around this guy....just catch'em with the goods. and as i stated before in another post the tie back thing just done to every horse claimed is butchery.......but its legal.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
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Laurierace
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Subpoenas went out on the first. The hearing is on the 21st. Has nothing to do with Penn or the racing commission as some of them were the one's subpoenaed. Maybe the grand jury can get to the bottom of this and throw all the complacents out with Gill. Better yet throw them all in the same jail cell.