Wygod CA dispersal

[bdw0617]

okay, serious question

has anyone considered that maybe, just maybe.. as a whoe... the ca stallionsa are crap and no one wants to bred to them anymore?

in other words, is betrando going to suddengly get a book of 80 mares now that he is in lexington?


horse racing needs a dow jones index for stallions. while betrando is a good sire he never was a great one and isn't one i would be using to judget he market.


There are three sires I would look at to see to determine if people are willing to bred anymore

in excess
unusal heat

and for new sires i'd take a strong look at papa clem's numbers. he should not have a shortage of mares at his bekon call.

when is the last time betrando had a really good young horse? before this year the last time a betrando had won a grade 1 was bilo in the triple bend.

maybe the cali breeders are just being picker.

would YOU bred to betrando for 8k?

[fastappy]

in other words, is betrando going to suddengly get a book of 80 mares now that he is in lexington?

When did that happen?

[bdw0617]

that was a typo. i meant to say if he goes to lexington.

i don't think the reason betrando isn't getting mares is becuase he is in CA. i think it's becuase he is an underachiever.

silly me, I think if you put a bad sire anywhere, they will hold their own weight. if you put a good sire anywhere, they will not get many mares.

Cali's last "prime' was when in excess and benchmark were clicking on all cylinders

there is not one sire outside of those two that i think are capable of siring anything remotely close to a grade 1 calibur horse. unsual heat has a few actually. in excess is hit and miss but when he hits he HITS.


the build back needs to start from within, what i mean is, keep the good cali horses, in california when they retire, and not running to kentucky.

they weren't keeping pioneerof the nile out there, but horses like zenzational, street boss, noble's promise, misremembered, neko bay, surf cat (god i love this horse), conveyance, Sidney's candy..

do you know what type of infusion that would do to cali racing?

keep the best in cail and cali racing will be okay. it starts with quality.

teh problem with cali racing, is that you get horses like pioneerof the nile win all the big races, then go to Kentucky, leaving nothing but outcvasts in cali and no one wants to bred to outcasts, no matter how much tehy cost.

if they can just start keeping half of those sires, the good horses that are running on the circut now, in California in due time, cali racing would be back and better than ever.

[fastappy]

In part that is what some horsemen are trying to do with Pappa Clem & Square Eddie. The In Excess, Bertrando, & U.H. (old guard) are getting up there, and with the exception of U.H. are losing their appeal at $12.5 & 8K in this declining climate. And try to sell one and you'll have to be lucky to get your expenses back, much less making a profit.

There some good breed to race stallions in this state with reasonable fees, but beyond the 5K it's hard to justify as it is challenging to sell at a profit in California. The mares are being hard culled in this economy, so I expect that in time (a few years) Cal-breds will become more sellable. I've seen a signifcant improvement of the mares on the foal showcases (CTBA & Harris Farm, etc.).

The second problem is even if you breed for a reasonable amount, in Northern California the declining purses coupled with static training fees, and increased veterinary fees, it becomes cost prohibitive if you have a cheap claimer. Don't even think about So-Cal at $90-$125 per day.

The Cal-Bred bonuses are an incentive, but not enough to get people back in the game.

[louis finochio]

If are leading CA. stallions went to KY. they would be a pebble in the pond. The stallion competition in Ky. is major league.

If i were Frank Stronach ala Adena Springs, I would sent my stallions & mares that would fit in the minor league, to Ca. The competiton would be far less than in Ky. or Fla.

[bdw0617]

If are leading CA. stallions went to KY. they would be a pebble in the pond. The stallion competition in Ky. is major league.

If i were Frank Stronach ala Adena Springs, I would sent my stallions & mares that would fit in the minor league, to Ca. The competiton would be far less than in Ky. or Fla.

louis, that is quite possibly the best idea i have heard, the best REAL idea i have heard in a long time.



if i were stornach i'd ship einstien to cali pronto. he woulld thrive in a makret that has synethics as he has won a grade 1 on all surfaces. he's taylor made for the cali market.


i'd move showing up, tiago, touch gold, and wilko out to cali.

[Sierra]

If are leading CA. stallions went to KY. they would be a pebble in the pond. The stallion competition in Ky. is major league.

If i were Frank Stronach ala Adena Springs, I would sent my stallions & mares that would fit in the minor league, to Ca. The competiton would be far less than in Ky. or Fla.

louis, that is quite possibly the best idea i have heard, the best REAL idea i have heard in a long time.



if i were stornach i'd ship einstien to cali pronto. he woulld thrive in a makret that has synethics as he has won a grade 1 on all surfaces. he's taylor made for the cali market.


i'd move showing up, tiago, touch gold, and wilko out to cali.

There was a blog posted last week about Stronach setting up a farm in California. Click on the 6/22/2010 link to read it at http://www.thoroughbredinfo.com.

Wishful thinking, but a good idea nonetheless.

As a side note, Einstein is not a Grade 1 winner on all three surfaces. Only Lava Man holds that distinction.

[zinn21]

There was a blog posted last week about Stronach setting up a farm in California. Click on the 6/22/2010 link to read it at www.thoroughbredinfo.com.

Wishful thinking, but a good idea nonetheless.

Hey, he has the ill fated Dixon Downs property...

[karenkarenn]

So we now know that they are going to Ballena vista farms.
K

[fastappy]

It's good news that they're all staying in California. I am a little suprised that Benchmark will be standing alongside his son, but maybe that's good thing. It shows a lot of comittment on Ballena Vista's part.

[bdw0617]

If are leading CA. stallions went to KY. they would be a pebble in the pond. The stallion competition in Ky. is major league.

If i were Frank Stronach ala Adena Springs, I would sent my stallions & mares that would fit in the minor league, to Ca. The competiton would be far less than in Ky. or Fla.

louis, that is quite possibly the best idea i have heard, the best REAL idea i have heard in a long time.



if i were stornach i'd ship einstien to cali pronto. he woulld thrive in a makret that has synethics as he has won a grade 1 on all surfaces. he's taylor made for the cali market.


i'd move showing up, tiago, touch gold, and wilko out to cali.

There was a blog posted last week about Stronach setting up a farm in California. Click on the 6/22/2010 link to read it at http://www.thoroughbredinfo.com.

Wishful thinking, but a good idea nonetheless.

As a side note, Einstein is not a Grade 1 winner on all three surfaces. Only Lava Man holds that distinction.

i call him that, it's not his fault they can't make up the mind what they want to make the clark handicap.

[vallygirl927]

I told you! :-p I interviewed as the office assistant/ marketing manager of the stallions. I'm just waiting to hear back from Mr. Cohn next week!

[Mahubah]

i don't think the reason betrando isn't getting mares is becuase he is in CA. i think it's becuase he is an underachiever.

Actually, I would not call Bertrando an underachiever for two reasons. First his female family isn't very strong and his overall pedigree is a long way from fashionable, which hurt the quality of the mare support he got. He got absolutely no respect at the sales early on and pretty much had to make his own way on the merits of his progeny after they started racing. Had it not been for support from the Wygods and Marshall Naify, he'd probably have slid out of sight before he had any chance to make it as a sire.

Second, the Wygods' support for him, while much needed, has been a double edged sword because many of the mares they gave him were daughters and granddaughters of Pirate's Bounty. While Pirate's Bounty was a fine regional sire, results for his daughters when crossed to Bertrando have been distinctly subpar compared to Bertrando's results from mares by other sires. I looked at this when he had 11 crops to race, and at the time, Bertrando's results for foals with Pirate's Bounty as broodmare sire came to just 36% winners and 2.6% stakes winners, compared to 46.5% winners and 5.9% stakes winners from mares by other sires. He has also had relatively little access to his two best crosses, mares by Storm Cat and mares by sons of Seattle Slew.

I suspect part of the reason he has not crossed well with Pirate's Bounty has lain in conformation. Bertrando is a tall, rangy fellow who can supply a mare with size and length but does best with a mare that is not too large and coarse but is shorter coupled and has a bigger hip than his. As I recall, at least in photos, Pirate's Bounty appeared to be a rather lengthy type himself with a good shoulder but not particularly strong quarters, so the mating of his daughters to Bertrando probably didn't add anything that either needed.

At any rate, Bertrando isn't likely to improve his overall position as a sire wherever he moves, not because he is inherently a bad stallion (though his percentage of winners could certainly be improved on) but simply because he's old and not commercial.

[karenkarenn]

Mahubah
I realise that you know more about breeding than i, however when you are analysing Bertrando and PIrates Bounty are you looking at Stormy Jack and Pirates Deputy?
Karen

[karenkarenn]

And Nene, Berts law, Bertera= 60,000 in nine starts aint that bad, I can only wish my horse can do that. Bertsgirl = 87,000 in eight starts. Discernment = 133,000. Those are just to name a few and I havent cracked the Deputy minister and Pirates Bounty broodmares that went to Bertrando. Yeah bertrando had a few storm cat mares too but not that sucessfull in Re with the Dept Minister mares.
K