http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... -darby-dan
What do you guys think of him though for the American market? He's a Group 1 winning son of Red Ransom out of a Strawberry Road mare who's half to Rock Hard Ten. No idea how big a horse he is. I gather he's a turf miler. He's going into his first season in Australia now. Has a G1 at 4 against Cox Plate winner So You Think and I believe set a stakes record. Supposedly he raced in a G1 level at 2 and 3, but from what I can tell didn't get G1 placings til age 3.
Since when does $16,500 AUD ($14,652.20 USD) translate to "substantially less" for a great deal in the American market at $10,000? I mean percentage wise it's a drop, but it's not like he was super pricey before. He would however be the 2nd highest priced son of Red Ransom I can find standing anywhere, the only one to stand in KY, and at his original AUS fee basically tied as the top priced stallion at Darby Dan. I guess from that standpoint, it is a good break at $10,000. Is there a chance that we won't be getting late developing turf milers though? Are they hoping for more versatility or is getting a Group 1 winning Red Ransom the goal, full stop?
All American shuttling from Australia
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All American shuttling from Australia
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wallinga
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He's a big strong horse.
He was one of the best two year olds of his year over here. He ran second in our first two year old Group One the $1m Blue Diamond Stakes and run an excellent race without running a place in the world's richest two year old race, the Golden Slipper.
He went off the boil a bit as a three year old, but still ran third in a Group One 1200m race up the straight at Flemington. His win in the Emirates at four was something of an upset, but noone could argue that it was an impressive win, which he put to bed with a dazzling turn of foot.
His half sister by More Than Ready, More Strawberries ran third in this year's slipper and has just turned three.
There are three G1 winning sons of Red standing their first season down under this year and he is the cheapest. the others are at more than $20,000 and Arrowfield (his home down under) have another Group One winning son (Charge Forward) who stands for $33,000 and has already sired a Group one winning sprinter.
His fee probably reflects the fact that he won a G1 at four and he is from a more american than Australian family.
i think of all the Australian stallions retiring this year he's the best fit for the states and he'll certainly give you a bit more speed than, say a Dynaformer or a Kris S. Darby dan will back him with some good mares too, from the sounds of it.
It's weird to think that the first australian horse to shuttle to the US is a grandson of one of our greatest thoroughbred exports in Strawberry Road but is considered to have a very american pedigree over here!
He was one of the best two year olds of his year over here. He ran second in our first two year old Group One the $1m Blue Diamond Stakes and run an excellent race without running a place in the world's richest two year old race, the Golden Slipper.
He went off the boil a bit as a three year old, but still ran third in a Group One 1200m race up the straight at Flemington. His win in the Emirates at four was something of an upset, but noone could argue that it was an impressive win, which he put to bed with a dazzling turn of foot.
His half sister by More Than Ready, More Strawberries ran third in this year's slipper and has just turned three.
There are three G1 winning sons of Red standing their first season down under this year and he is the cheapest. the others are at more than $20,000 and Arrowfield (his home down under) have another Group One winning son (Charge Forward) who stands for $33,000 and has already sired a Group one winning sprinter.
His fee probably reflects the fact that he won a G1 at four and he is from a more american than Australian family.
i think of all the Australian stallions retiring this year he's the best fit for the states and he'll certainly give you a bit more speed than, say a Dynaformer or a Kris S. Darby dan will back him with some good mares too, from the sounds of it.
It's weird to think that the first australian horse to shuttle to the US is a grandson of one of our greatest thoroughbred exports in Strawberry Road but is considered to have a very american pedigree over here!
Darby Dan is going to need to back him with their mares because I don't see a lot of outside support happening.
Regardless of his Australian credentials (a lot of almost until 4), his sire left the States because of a lack of market for him, and he was a top class turf sire here. I'm not sure what a son of his, with an Australian record, is suppose to excite where his sire failed?
Regardless of his Australian credentials (a lot of almost until 4), his sire left the States because of a lack of market for him, and he was a top class turf sire here. I'm not sure what a son of his, with an Australian record, is suppose to excite where his sire failed?
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da hossman
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ASB - Red Ransom did not leave the States because of a lack of a market, the controlling interest was purchased by Darley for quite a bit of money. Lanes End and other minority shareholders tried to hold out but the Darley coffers were too strong.
I do agree that AA will find it tough to attract mares here - I doubt that Darby Dan has any ownership interest. DD will surely breed a few mares to him, but don't expect Soaring Softly to be in AA's book. Arrowfield (John Messara) is trying to give AA a chance in each hemisphere, and probably is not going to make a lot of money doing it. Messara is thinking outside the box.
Remember that Red Ransom was unique among Roberto's offspring in that he was brilliantly fast and on the dirt (track racord at Saratoga for 5 furlongs?). If they can point to a dirt race of All American's and draw the parallel, it will surely help.
I do agree that AA will find it tough to attract mares here - I doubt that Darby Dan has any ownership interest. DD will surely breed a few mares to him, but don't expect Soaring Softly to be in AA's book. Arrowfield (John Messara) is trying to give AA a chance in each hemisphere, and probably is not going to make a lot of money doing it. Messara is thinking outside the box.
Remember that Red Ransom was unique among Roberto's offspring in that he was brilliantly fast and on the dirt (track racord at Saratoga for 5 furlongs?). If they can point to a dirt race of All American's and draw the parallel, it will surely help.
A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries.
Will Rogers
Will Rogers
We bred to Red Ransom in his last US crop.. I believe there was less than 50 US mares that were sent to him, many from interests within his ownership.
Regardless of the behind the scenes reasons of him leaving, he was never supported the way he should have been and with the numbers he put up.
Now they want to bring a son to the mix? Surely DD can afford something domestic that might bring interest? I know they can't be coming out ahead every year with their current roster, but my, this has an air of desperation about it.
Regardless of the behind the scenes reasons of him leaving, he was never supported the way he should have been and with the numbers he put up.
Now they want to bring a son to the mix? Surely DD can afford something domestic that might bring interest? I know they can't be coming out ahead every year with their current roster, but my, this has an air of desperation about it.
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da hossman
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Hi ASB - I think you have hit the desperate nature of Darby Dan's stallion operation the last few years....Chuck Fipke's Tale of Ekati may havebeen the last stallion prospect with any hint of commercial appeal to retire there, and unfortunately he never covered a mare because of a cervical/vertebral issue that required the titanium basket surgery.
I do not believe All American is Darby Dan's idea, I think his owner John Messara is determined to give the horse a chance in the States and Darby Dan is the only farm willling to try (or to take day money/board without a significant equity upside).
By the way, I do think your "US mares" comment is probably true, if by "US mares" you meant US owned. Red Ransom's turf success and increasing stud fee definitely led to more European owned mares in his books, but he remained commercially popular till he left - 2003 he bred 91 mares; 2002 he bred 122 mares; 2001 he bred 86 mares; 2000 he bred 103 mares. Red Ransom is a horse with great libido and fertility, shuttling probably suited him just fine!
I do not believe All American is Darby Dan's idea, I think his owner John Messara is determined to give the horse a chance in the States and Darby Dan is the only farm willling to try (or to take day money/board without a significant equity upside).
By the way, I do think your "US mares" comment is probably true, if by "US mares" you meant US owned. Red Ransom's turf success and increasing stud fee definitely led to more European owned mares in his books, but he remained commercially popular till he left - 2003 he bred 91 mares; 2002 he bred 122 mares; 2001 he bred 86 mares; 2000 he bred 103 mares. Red Ransom is a horse with great libido and fertility, shuttling probably suited him just fine!
A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries.
Will Rogers
Will Rogers
I thought I was the ONLY ONE who thought Darby Dan seemed to be grasping at straws with this horse.-
oliverstoned
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da hossman
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Hi Oliver:
Almost every stud farm takes an equity position in the new stallions they stand - this gives the farm the opportunity to participate in the added profits in the event the horse makes it big. Day money is not why stud farms do business - it is break even at best.
Consider the Candy Ride situation - John Sikura did not own any piece of CR but stood the horse and invested 4 years of promotion (sure Craig's paid invoices but HillnDale staff managed campaign & was on the phone selling the horse), mares and effort to give CR a good chance. CR hits but because Sikura does not control the horse, Craig moves him to Lanes End, where he stands at a significantly higher fee.
Sikura has since made the statement he will no longer stand any horse in which he does not own a significant interest. Sikura was burned first by Haisfield then by the Craig's.
So how does DD lose? What if AA shocks the world and becomes the next superstar? Other farms with more capital & better resources will come calling and Messara is a businessman....the other farms do not have to buy Messara out, they can just buy a piece of the horse at an inflated value. Or if AA is really good Messara may not risk shuttling the horse again.
On the other hand if AA does not make it, DD will have invested 4 years of time and effort on a losing cause for $65/day plus 4 or 5 unsellable breeding rights each year. Not a very attractive picture either way.
Almost every stud farm takes an equity position in the new stallions they stand - this gives the farm the opportunity to participate in the added profits in the event the horse makes it big. Day money is not why stud farms do business - it is break even at best.
Consider the Candy Ride situation - John Sikura did not own any piece of CR but stood the horse and invested 4 years of promotion (sure Craig's paid invoices but HillnDale staff managed campaign & was on the phone selling the horse), mares and effort to give CR a good chance. CR hits but because Sikura does not control the horse, Craig moves him to Lanes End, where he stands at a significantly higher fee.
Sikura has since made the statement he will no longer stand any horse in which he does not own a significant interest. Sikura was burned first by Haisfield then by the Craig's.
So how does DD lose? What if AA shocks the world and becomes the next superstar? Other farms with more capital & better resources will come calling and Messara is a businessman....the other farms do not have to buy Messara out, they can just buy a piece of the horse at an inflated value. Or if AA is really good Messara may not risk shuttling the horse again.
On the other hand if AA does not make it, DD will have invested 4 years of time and effort on a losing cause for $65/day plus 4 or 5 unsellable breeding rights each year. Not a very attractive picture either way.
A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries.
Will Rogers
Will Rogers
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oliverstoned
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da hossman
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Hi Oliver - I did not mean to be the voice of "doom and gloom" but it is a tough business. Stallions sometimes draw seasonal mares to a farm, sometimes draw sales consignment business as well. And you are right that AA is one more stallion to spread the advertising costs among (most farms enter into a weekly or bi-weekly advertising contract with the Bloodhorse).
I guess my point was that one does not want to just go through the motions for day money. This is the sport/business of dreams, of "the big horse" and that is what we are all aiming for regardless of our level of play. By not having any skin in the game DD has removed themselves from that possibility. Doesn't every owner/breeder look at every new foal and wonder "could this be the one?!!"
I guess my point was that one does not want to just go through the motions for day money. This is the sport/business of dreams, of "the big horse" and that is what we are all aiming for regardless of our level of play. By not having any skin in the game DD has removed themselves from that possibility. Doesn't every owner/breeder look at every new foal and wonder "could this be the one?!!"
A difference of opinion is what makes horse racing and missionaries.
Will Rogers
Will Rogers