Candy Ride's Genetic Success??

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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zinn21
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Candy Ride's Genetic Success??

Postby zinn21 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:53 am

After watching Twirling Candy win the Del Mar Derby, it is quite evident that Candy Ride is a top class stallion capable of getting very talented runners.

But how is this possible? Candy Ride is by Ride The Rails by Cryptoclearance. All siring sons of Cryptoclearance in North America are average sires at best. Ride The Rails has no other successful siring sons other than Candy Ride to the best of my knowledge. How does Candy Ride come from nowhere and stamp himself as a high class stallion? So far many of his progeny show brilliant speed and the precocity to win at two. Sydney's Candy was this years Derby favorite; shattered a grass track record in his first start on the carpet @ Del Mar and Sadler considers him second to Twirling Candy who by the way ran the mile and an eighth in 1:46 and 4/5's. I cant' remember any horse running a mile and an eighth faster in his fourth start on any surface.

Is this a classic example of Epigenetics? From Wikepedia: "Epigenetic changes have also been observed to occur in response to environmental exposure"

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Candy Ride

Postby jagger » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:38 am

Well, of course we can't give all the credit to just one half of the pedigree. It could be that someone just "guessed" right about the mares that he has been getting. Fappiano is pretty versatile and works well with lots of other stallions. He, Candy Ride, is emerging as a potent grass horse sire which is a little surprising as well. Sidney's Candy most recent win, on grass, was very impressive.....1:39+ for 1 1/16. Candy Ride's recent success could have come at a better time for us as we have a beautiful Candy Ride filly selling on the second day of the Keeneland Sale....next week.

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Postby Fireslam » Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:36 am

Because he's fast, and fast horses can produce other fast horses. Ack Ack also didnt produce any good sire sons....except one. Wavering Monarch, Cee's Tizzy, Southern Halo, not known as sire producers. Yet their best sons are good sires. Because they were good fast horses. I truly think performance carries more weight than pedigree in a sire.

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Postby Tappiano » Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:41 pm

All of Crypto's kids were sold off pretty young so there isn't really a good baseline.

Victory Gallop, Volponi and Millenium Wind were here and gone.

Ride the Rails did stand here for a few years before he was sent south.

Other then Victory Gallop, did the others get any nice mares?

zinn21
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Postby zinn21 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:48 pm

It has to be more than they were "fast horses". There are thousands of fast horses who never duplicated there racing aptitude.

All of Cryptoclearance's sons put together couldn't muster up Candy Ride's third best horse in his first two crops.

Yet Ride The Rails goes to South America and sires Candy Ride whose first few American crops are nothing less than sensational. Ride The Rails won a restricted stake and placed in Graded Stakes but was no world beater. But he is a Cryptoclearance son who happened to move to another region and introduce new genetics to a horse population.

There is something going on genetically with Candy Ride that no other son or grandson of Cryptoclearance seems to possess..

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Postby Fireslam » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:16 pm

Find me the thousands of fast horses that were as fast as Candy Ride.

zinn21
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Postby zinn21 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:29 am

Find me the thousands of fast horses that were as fast as Candy Ride.


Rich Cream, Time To Explode, Najran, Hoedown's Day, Simply Majestic, Secretariat. That's off the top of my head. None of these horses remotely came close to duplicating their racing aptitude. Other than Secretariat who courted royally bred mares, most were average to poor sires..

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Postby Tappiano » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:00 am

Maybe he loves Nearctic more than the others :)

Fireslam
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Postby Fireslam » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:48 am

zinn21 wrote:
Find me the thousands of fast horses that were as fast as Candy Ride.


Rich Cream, Time To Explode, Najran, Hoedown's Day, Simply Majestic, Secretariat. That's off the top of my head. None of these horses remotely came close to duplicating their racing aptitude. Other than Secretariat who courted royally bred mares, most were average to poor sires..


Im thinking you don't know what a fast horse is. Not a single one of those horses (other than Secretariat, who was a terrific sire) won a single grade one race. Ive seen a lot of fast horses. Horses who can win races are obviously fast. Im talking about fast horses, grade 1 horse, with CLASS. Theres a big difference.

Horses like Buckpasser, Broad Brush, Deputy Minister, Candy Ride, Tiznow, Afleet Alex; horses that are by far the best sons of their sire, and horses that had extraordinary class. Thats what Im talking about.

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Postby bdw0617 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:10 pm

keep this in mind.

all but one of his good ones (capt candyman can)


come form the same female family

as far as the class of candy ride, if you made a top 100 list of the most talanted horses of all time, he'd be in the top 15. he ws that talented. maybe not that accomplished, but that talented.

he'd have blown the doors off a lure at 1mile
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Pan Zareta
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Postby Pan Zareta » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:06 pm

bdw0617 wrote:keep this in mind.
all but one of his good ones (capt candyman can)
come form the same female family


:shock:
How are you defining "good ones"? Just looking at his G1 winners I see 5 different families representing at least 4 different mtDNA haplotypes, and at least 3 different mtDNA haplogroups.

Tappiano wrote:Maybe he loves Nearctic more than the others :)


That was the only thing that jumped out at me, kind of... :wink:

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Postby vineyridge » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:42 pm

Might be all the French horses in his pedigree. He has a double to Wild Risk and many lines to Ksar/Tourbillon. Bringing that French blood back has to be positive. And he has a double or more to Nasrullah.

I think that having more than one of the three foundation sires on the first page plus one for mares in the fifth is a very good thing for breeding. Plus Candy Ride has only one line to Native Dancer and Northern Dancer, so he's pretty much an outcross for most of the current NA racers.

Looks to me as if there might be a nick with Storm Cat.
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zinn21
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Postby zinn21 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:58 pm

Fireslam you said fast horses. All previous mentioned were fast horses who broke track records in Stakes races. Yet none other than Secretariat was a successful sire. Nonetheless there are hundreds of Candy Rides (fast Grade I horses) who were not capable of siring anything near their aptitude.

No doubt, a fast Grade I horse is a definite plus but if fast Grade I stakes horses were the holy grail for sire aptitude it would be game set match at this point don't you think?

I think Candy Ride received an epigenetic modification to his DNA and that modification has, not only, catapulted him far ahead of all his siring half brothers but most of the general siring population as well.

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Candy Ride

Postby jagger » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:27 pm

How many Candy Ride's will show up for the BC? And what races will they enter? Sidney's Candy, Spaniard, Silent Candy Twirling Candy....others? Candy Ride has had a very good summer.