Getting billed for worker's comp on your training bill

[wgc517]

I am wondering how common it is for trainers to bill (separate line on montlhy bill) for worker's comp insurance. I don't think all trainers do this. What is a fair price, I have seen it from $30 to $100. Is it another way to pad the bills? I understand it is an expense for them and they have to recoup it but sometimes I feel like I am getting nickeled and dimed to death.

Maybe I just need to vent.....

[TJ]

I am wondering how common it is for trainers to bill (separate line on montlhy bill) for worker's comp insurance. I don't think all trainers do this. What is a fair price, I have seen it from $30 to $100. Is it another way to pad the bills? I understand it is an expense for them and they have to recoup it but sometimes I feel like I am getting nickeled and dimed to death.

Maybe I just need to vent.....

Hi WG,
That's a first, at least I've never heard of it....nor do I feel it is right to bill your owner for workman's comp., when it has nothing to do with you.....would your trainer accept a bill from you for mortality insurance you want to take out on your horse? It is a business expense that a trainer must absorb if he wants to be in the business. If the insurance premiums were passed on to the owner's there would be a lot less complaints about the price of workman's comp by every trainer in the business. Now, on the other hand if you want to pitch in....that's fine....but to add it in as a billing expense, that's absurd. I have seen some of the modern day trainers add in a couple percent of the purse for the help....which is fair, but once again that is the owner's prerogative....not a must, it's always been another expense the trainer absorbed. TJ

[cewright]

The answer is it depends. It depends on the local jurisdictions requirement for who needs to carry WC and who is covered. Some states require no WC, some states require the trainer to provide WC, and some states require the trainer and the owner to be insured. The details are jurisdiction specific and are probably handled best through your trainer with advice from lawyers and other professionals rather than through an internet chat board.

FWIW, WC runs a minimum of 10-12% of payroll for me. Additionally, my liability insurance is $90/horse per year. The owner ends up paying these costs one way or another as they are typical overhead and are included in the dayrate. Additional expenses for owners coverage for WC and liability as well as per race charges (think Louisiana for example) would be billed as extras. Remember the trainer is responsible under the "absolute insurer" doctrine for making sure you, the owner, has met all licensing and insurance requirements in each local jurisdiction you operate in.

Chuck

[wgc517]

Thank you for your insight,

I guess my expectation is that the day rate should include all of the trainers costs. Bill me separate for the Farrier and the vet and medications but an extra line charge for worker's comp too much? It is expensive enough to race your horses and my guess is that alot of trainers will eventually price themselves out of a job either that or you will see more owners become trainers and train off their farms. It may not be good for racing but neither will overcharging owners.

Maybe I am making too much of it but I have also heard of trainers charging $10 to hold a horse while they get shoed. Again, it just rubs me the wrong way.

[winds]

I've never heard of a trainer billing the owners for Workmans Comp. It is something the trainer has to take care of him/her self. It's part of their overhead. I do believe you are being nickeled and dimed to death.

winds

[Laurierace]

The only reason I could imagine charging an owner for workman's comp is if the owner wanted to race a horse in a state that I normally do not run in and does not accept my current workman's comp policy. Example is Delaware. They charge something like $350 for 5 starts for their workman's comp. If I was not going to race any other horses there and it was just the one owner's horse I would talk to them ahead of time about the cost and they could chose to accept it or to run in the states where my policy is valid. Short of that you are getting fleeced imo.

[TJ]

The answer is it depends. It depends on the local jurisdictions requirement for who needs to carry WC and who is covered. Some states require no WC, some states require the trainer to provide WC, and some states require the trainer and the owner to be insured. The details are jurisdiction specific and are probably handled best through your trainer with advice from lawyers and other professionals rather than through an internet chat board.

FWIW, WC runs a minimum of 10-12% of payroll for me. Additionally, my liability insurance is $90/horse per year. The owner ends up paying these costs one way or another as they are typical overhead and are included in the dayrate. Additional expenses for owners coverage for WC and liability as well as per race charges (think Louisiana for example) would be billed as extras. Remember the trainer is responsible under the "absolute insurer" doctrine for making sure you, the owner, has met all licensing and insurance requirements in each local jurisdiction you operate in.

Chuck

Hi Chuck,
Are you talking about a trainer of race horses or some other type of trainer (show, dressage etc.)? Only over the last few years, race tracks are requiring liability coverage (at the same 90 yearly rate as you mentioned).....many training center's have required it long before that. No owner's are required to carry workman's comp, it is the trainer's business and his responsibility to have the proper insurance coverage as he employ's the help. It is his business expense and is not the responsibility of his owner. Of course, if you are in the upper echelon and can get away with passing your insurance costs on to your owner's that can afford big day rates, that's a plus....but it still doesn't make it right.
Below is Louisiana's workman's comp rules, mandating all trainer's to have coverage.....says nothing about owner's. TJ

WORKER’S COMPENSATION PROGRAM EXPLANATION & DISCLOSURES
INTRODUCTION
The Louisiana Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association (LAHBPA), as Program Sponsor, has established a Worker’s Compensation Program to provide accessible and affordable Worker’s Compensation Coverage for the benefit of its members as authorized by Louisiana Revised Statutes 4: 251 & 252. These statues mandate that all trainers must have worker’s compensation coverage provided by the LAHBPA in order to participate in any thoroughbred or quarter horse race.LAHBPA’S Workers Compensation Program has been designed to provide a valuable benefit to its members; it success is dependent on the support and involvement of all participants.
Key components of the program include:
 A team of service providers selected for its experience and capabilities
 Strict oversight and controls of Payroll Reporting
 Mandatory Safety Training and Compliance Program
 Efficient Claim Reporting, Handling and Resolution
QUALIFICATION FOR PARTICIPATION
Thoroughbred & Quarter Horse Owners and Trainers that have acquired a Louisiana State Racing Commission License are eligible to apply to the LAHBPA for coverage.
COVERAGE PROVIDED
Coverage will be provided by American International Group Company (AIG). AIG is one of the world’s leading insurance companies and has been rated A+ XV (Excellent) by AM Best Rating Co.
Generally, covered persons and places are as follows:
Worker’s Compensation coverage will be provided to approved and licensed LAHBPA members:
 Approved participant’s employees that fall under NCCI Workers Compensation Classification “Stables & Drivers”, Code Number 8279
 Louisiana Race Tracks, Louisiana State Racing Commission Recognized Training Centers and Non Racing Farms & facilities approved by a LAHBPA Safety Inspector.
 The following states are EXCLUDED from coverage: New York, California, Wyoming, West Virginia, Washington, North Dakota, and Ohio
 The following U.S. territories are EXCLUDED from coverage: Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands
DOMICILE RULE
All States Coverage may be provided for applicants domiciled in Louisiana who show acceptable proof of Louisiana residence (copy of homestead exemption, tax bill, or home owner’s insurance)
Page 4 of 34
or at least 100 Louisiana starts in the previous annual policy period. If a trainer does not have 100 starts in Louisiana, then 66 percent of the trainer’s total starts have to have been in Louisiana with a minimum of 20 starts overall during the preceding policy year.
For Louisiana-domiciled participants, coverage is extended to other states while temporarily participating in horse racing and/or training operations.
All Farms outside of Louisiana are excluded from policy coverage.
Worker’s Compensation Coverages:
Statutory Limits
Employer’s Liability Coverage:
Bodily Injury by Accident – Each Accident
$ 1,000,000
Each Employee Bodily Injury by Disease
$ 1,000,000
Policy Limit Bodily Injury by Disease
$ 1,000,000
NOTE: Employer’s Liability is insurance that covers an employer's liability for bodily injury to employees occurring within the scope of their employment when that liability is not covered by workers' compensation.
Jockeys are not and will not be covered under this program with the exception of performing the duties of an exercise rider, provided that they are on the employee work list of a policy holder and are performing duties for that policy holder, as an exercise rider, at the time of an accident. Under no circumstances will they be covered when riding in races, as well as participating in official work outs. Proof of payroll will be required at time of accident report and only that payroll will be accepted to determine loss of wages.
Owners and Executive Officers of the insured entity are automatically excluded from coverage. Coverage may be requested via completion of a request form which is available at the LAHBPA offices and website.
APPLICATION PROCESS
The program is to sign up Quarter Horse & Thoroughbred Trainers stabled at Race Tracks & Recognized Training Centers in Louisiana and Non-Racing Quarter Horse & Thoroughbred Farms and Training Centers. Applications are available at:
 Field Offices, Main Office, & Worker’s Comp. Representatives
 Mail or email upon request of applicant
 LAHBPA Web site: www.lahbpa.org
If you are stabled at a recognized Racing Facility in Louisiana, bring the following documents to any Racetrack Field Office. If you are not stabled at any recognized Racing Facilities in Louisiana, mail the following documents along with your check to:
H.B.P.A.
1535 GENTILLY BLVD.
NEW ORLEANS, LA. 70119
ATTN: Workers’ Comp. Division
(504) 945-1555

[madelyn]

Here in KY, trainers are REQUIRED BY LAW to have Workers' Compensation coverage, even though all of their full time employees and their families have had complete medical and dental expenses paid for by HBPA for YEARS. The coverage, like most other health type insurance in KY, is heinously priced, and the average trainer will pay $2500+ per year. This creates a continental divide - a small trainer can do, say, 4-6 horses alone (no full time help). The cost to expand has to include WC insurance. As stated earlier in this thread, this is part of a trainer's cost of doing business (even though this is a relatively new and probably completely unnecessary requirement) and at the very least has to be passed along to the owners in the form of an increased day rate.

Laurierace has brought up a point I think is important, also, to consider. Some states just won't accept the WC paid in other states and will REQUIRE a trainer to purchase WC coverage in that state in order to run, at all. So if the owner insists on running there, then that owner can be expected to pony up for the WC coverage...

[TJ]

Here in KY, trainers are REQUIRED BY LAW to have Workers' Compensation coverage, even though all of their full time employees and their families have had complete medical and dental expenses paid for by HBPA for YEARS. The coverage, like most other health type insurance in KY, is heinously priced, and the average trainer will pay $2500+ per year. This creates a continental divide - a small trainer can do, say, 4-6 horses alone (no full time help). The cost to expand has to include WC insurance. As stated earlier in this thread, this is part of a trainer's cost of doing business (even though this is a relatively new and probably completely unnecessary requirement) and at the very least has to be passed along to the owners in the form of an increased day rate.

Laurierace has brought up a point I think is important, also, to consider. Some states just won't accept the WC paid in other states and will REQUIRE a trainer to purchase WC coverage in that state in order to run, at all. So if the owner insists on running there, then that owner can be expected to pony up for the WC coverage...

Hi Madelyn,
It's pretty much just another catch .22 in the life of the small race horse trainer. The cost's skyrocket and the day money never cover's all the small trainer's daily expenses. If the small trainer try's to cover his expenses (just to break even) and raises his rates he also runs the risk of losing that owner to a bigger trainer. The thinking being, as long as the day rate is that high I'll go to a more established trainer. Wgc517's trainer would have been better off just increasing his day rate to cover his expenses and not mention the reason why? In so doing WG became upset knowing he is being billed for something he should not be. Laurie came up with the only viable reason to ask the owner to come up with the extra insurance cost when shipping out of her coverage. TJ

[ratherrapid]

Q. I thought workers comp is required if the trainer has an employee. Did somebody post that in some states trainers must have worker's comp to race even if the trainer is without any employees?

[wgc517]

I have heard it is common in NY and that is where my trainer is. (of course I bougth a NY bred). I went back to look at my NY racing license Application supplement, and in section 2, it does say All Aplicants must submit a workers comp certificate. Maybe that is the reason why, I will reach out to him to ask the question.

Maybe someone racing in NY can shed some light on it. In the meantime I will reach out to the trainer to ask and will post the response.

Thanks for everyones insight.

[photofinish]

In IL, MI, and AZ Workman's Comp was required even if you trained one horse.

[KBEquine]

Is the trainer himself ever covered by worker's comp, or does it cover his employees & he's buying his own health insurance (if there's any money left over)?

And does anyone know PA's requirements?

[madelyn]

The trainer is not covered unless he has formed a corporation and pays himself as an employee.

[TJ]

Is the trainer himself ever covered by worker's comp, or does it cover his employees & he's buying his own health insurance (if there's any money left over)?

And does anyone know PA's requirements?

Hi KB,
In addition to what Madelyn said to you concerning workmans comp. Health insurance is an entirely other expense as many trainer's and employees health benefits recieved through HBPA are minimal at best and possibly inadequate in the eyes of the new health care bill. Therefore bringing this additional cost of employee health care (as well as your own under the health care mandate) which should effectively wipe out the small business trainers. TJ