The Hopeful Stakes

General racing discussion.

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:50 am

TJ wrote:Fager was a freak as we say in the business....he would have defeated Damascus everytime they met. The ended up meetin 4 times with 2 wins a piece....the only way Damascus beat Fager was when they ran that rabbit in the race and he was finished before the 1/4 pole. TJ


I'll always believe that up to a mile, and maybe a little longer, 4 y o Dr Fager would have outrun every TB who ever lived, and I include Secretariat. I cannot think of another horse who ran a sub :21 quarter and won. I cannot think of another horse who ran a sub :21 quarter in an American stakes race.

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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:28 am

winds wrote:I worked for both Joe and Charlsie. As a groom for Joe but as Charlsie's assistant for 3 years. She was the best to work for, a great boss, but then so was Joe. I don't know if John Hicks became a steward, I hope so, he's a good horseman too.

I've retired from that end of it, physical problems, but I've got a broodmare who I'm breeding to race, but selling the yearlings. Can't afford to race them myself unless we get more partners and my partner doesn't want to do that..............yet. I'm working on her.

Sounds like you have the best of all worlds the way you're doing it. Good for you. This industry needs as many horsemen in it as possible.

winds


That's right....it's coming back to me:>) I asked if you were there when Billy was galloping for Joe....think I told you the Damascus Blade story:>) I liked both the Cantey's as well.....
It's tough when you have to bring them all the way up from babies....it gets expensive, then on track expenses are crazy. As long as they sell OK and cover expenses and a few nights out....the breeder's awards are good in PA, so you'll always get a piece of the action. Enough pieces then you can hang on to that one that winks at you before he stands and nurses:>)
It's working OK for me....I've been getting them at the right price, work on them, move them up....get a couple good races out of them and sell the sound ones for a profit to people I feel will give them a good home. The bad ones I hang on to so I can protect them along the way.....I had a real nice two year old, but he had a lot of problems. Ran him in a MDSPWT at 2 and he finished 5th of 11 going 7/8ths. Came out of the race bad so I gave him 6 months off and brought him back for a high tag. Finished 3rd beaten a 1 1/4 going 1 1/8th. Came out bad again, gave him another 7 months off and he recently broke his maiden....had a couple decent offers on him, but after all this time he's my pal. I don't want anyone else to push him past the point of no return now that he's traveling well.....I've handled him the old school way, protected him while I got him fit with long gallops and 2 minute licks.....a couple easy halfs and he's good to go. He's holding up very well right now....but I've got a good home all ready picked out for him if things go south again.....wouldn't be fair to bring him back for a 3rd time:>) TJ

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TJ
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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:35 am

Bast wrote:
TJ wrote:Fager was a freak as we say in the business....he would have defeated Damascus everytime they met. The ended up meetin 4 times with 2 wins a piece....the only way Damascus beat Fager was when they ran that rabbit in the race and he was finished before the 1/4 pole. TJ


I'll always believe that up to a mile, and maybe a little longer, 4 y o Dr Fager would have outrun every TB who ever lived, and I include Secretariat. I cannot think of another horse who ran a sub :21 quarter and won. I cannot think of another horse who ran a sub :21 quarter in an American stakes race.


Hi Bast,
Dr. Fager was tough on himself....all he wanted to feel was the wind in his face.....no horses in front of him to block that free running spirit. He would just go all out.....he ran a 1 1/4 under 2 minutes and beat Damascus setting a track record....next time they put the rabbit in there and the fractions were insane...Fager couldn't go any longer and Damascus won the race breaking the track record Dr. Fager had just set. TJ

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Bast
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Postby Bast » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:05 pm

TJ wrote:Dr. Fager was tough on himself....all he wanted to feel was the wind in his face.....no horses in front of him to block that free running spirit. He would just go all out.....he ran a 1 1/4 under 2 minutes and beat Damascus setting a track record....next time they put the rabbit in there and the fractions were insane...Fager couldn't go any longer and Damascus won the race breaking the track record Dr. Fager had just set. TJ


We haven't seen a season like the year they were both 4 and at their peaks. Dr Fager was amazing. When I found the You Tube videos of some of his races, I was awed all over again. He ran and won all over. Who today would have the guts to try their top dirt horse on turf?

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winds
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Postby winds » Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:28 pm

TJ - ( sorry I don't know how to use the Quote thingy ) It sounds like you do things the right way. Wish we had a little more money coming in so we could race some ourselves. But alas, we have to do it this way. I just hope she goes to a good horseman and not a pharmacutical.

winds

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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:12 pm

Bast wrote:
TJ wrote:Dr. Fager was tough on himself....all he wanted to feel was the wind in his face.....no horses in front of him to block that free running spirit. He would just go all out.....he ran a 1 1/4 under 2 minutes and beat Damascus setting a track record....next time they put the rabbit in there and the fractions were insane...Fager couldn't go any longer and Damascus won the race breaking the track record Dr. Fager had just set. TJ


We haven't seen a season like the year they were both 4 and at their peaks. Dr Fager was amazing. When I found the You Tube videos of some of his races, I was awed all over again. He ran and won all over. Who today would have the guts to try their top dirt horse on turf?


Hi Bast,
It's not the same kind of racing today...in most cases they just get their graded status and get them out to the breeding shed as soon as they can. Usually not enough time to bother switching surfaces, in most cases it won't make a difference in the stud fee anyway. TJ

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Postby TJ » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:20 pm

winds wrote:TJ - ( sorry I don't know how to use the Quote thingy ) It sounds like you do things the right way. Wish we had a little more money coming in so we could race some ourselves. But alas, we have to do it this way. I just hope she goes to a good horseman and not a pharmacutical.

winds


Hi Winds,
That's the main concern....the horse. When I'ld take on an owner, I would tell them the chain of command and It was simple, the horse comes first, then my help, then you (the owner) and I'm on the bottom of the list. If they agree OK, if not try the next shedrow:>) TJ

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winds
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Postby winds » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:22 pm

TJ, we're of the same motto " Always The Horse".

winds

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Postby TJ » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:18 am

winds wrote:TJ, we're of the same motto " Always The Horse".

winds


Hi Winds,
That's because you were brought up the right way. Through the years I've been with some well know people and I've learned what to do and how to do it the right way. By the same token, I've seen morals change with these very same trainer's/owners and take short cuts at the expense of the horse. That was a more important lesson to learn, than being taught the right way. Knowing what not to do is more important then knowing what to do when you mess them up.
Unfortunately that is what has become of the industry. It's about the bottom line of the expenses versus the horses ability. No one gives a horse enough time today unless they are top horses....so they go to the meds and train then right along, withdraw on time to run and if they make it through the race the cycle begins all over again....till they are cooked. To me that's the biggest change in racing and one of the main reasons why horses don't race as often as they did. That and the fact that there was no year round racing....that puts a damper on a horses longevity almost as much as mis-management and drug abuse. TJ
Last edited by TJ on Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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winds
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Postby winds » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:46 am

That's true, they used to get time off because there was no year round racing. Maybe we should go back to that, though the horsemen and the states won't go for it. I miss the old days.................

winds

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Postby TJ » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:02 am

winds wrote:That's true, they used to get time off because there was no year round racing. Maybe we should go back to that, though the horsemen and the states won't go for it. I miss the old days.................

winds


Me too...and good luck with your mare and babies. TJ

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Postby winds » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:30 am

Thank you TJ, I need all the luck I can get with the breeding end of things.

winds

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Postby TJ » Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:19 am

Before we took this thread down memeory lane, we were talking about this years Hopeful winner Boys At Tosconova. He's training his way into the BC Juvenile and hasn't missed a beat. He had a couple good works....the most recent was today, going 3/4's over a fast Aqueduct main track in 1:13.18. Last Saturday he worked an impressive 5/8ths over Aqueduct's main track labeled good in 58.99 breezing. TJ

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Postby TJ » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:11 pm

Ricky Dutrow continues to train Boys at Tosconova into the BC Juvenile. He worked 3/4's this AM at Aqueduct over a fast strip in 1:10.90 breezing....with Ramon Dominguez in the irons he ran each 1/4 consecutively faster than the one before....24.44, 23.35, 23.11. TJ

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Postby TJ » Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:39 am

Boys At Tosconova worked an easy 3/4's this morning, over a fast Aqueduct main track in 1:16.67 breezing. TJ