Texas Thoroughbred Forum

[jrgators]

I feel your frustration!

I can only asses it with the words insanity, and arrogance! To tell grown azz folks that they can't talk to the folks they voted into office, UNLESS it's with what they think you should say is nothing shy of AMAZING! The more I read the more determined I become to bring about a change in the mindset, and the philosophical stance of the organizations that were formed to support, and protect the racing industry.

I honestly believe that there are some that KNOW better, but they are so deep in this that they can't pull themselves out of it. I have personally been told that they don't have enough support, and have lost 5 others that were "suppose" to be yes votes already! So why oh why in the wide wide world would we continue down this dead end street? It's called insanity!

To take a stance of basically telling those who disagree to shut their mouth is also a statement of sheer arrogance! A person actually has the gall to tell another person what to think, what to say, when to say it, and who to say it to! WOW

I love Texas, and I love Texas racing, but man these guys do make it difficult to stay in love!

Hope everyone had great racing luck this weekend, and it was a joy to watch a living racing legend (Zenyatta) make it happen yesterday, and I'll be cheering for her to make it a perfect 20!

Theo

[jrgators]

Beautiful day today in Central Texas, and I hope that all is well with each of you!

OK, I'm getting married Friday, so I won't be on for a while. But before I go, I need to ask this one question.........

20% GROWTH IS MODEST, AND 20% DECLINE IS CRISIS NOW FOLKS I'M NOT MAKING THIS UP! THESE WORDS ARE DIRECTLY FROM THE MOUTHS OF YOUR LEADERS.......HERE WE GO

THE TRACKS AND THE ASSOCIATIONS KEEP TELLING US WE CAN'T MAKE IT WITH THESE DOUBLE DIGIT DECLINES! WE'VE ALL BEEN BEAT DOWN TO A PULP THAT THE TRACKS ARE GOING TO CLOSE WITH THESE LOSSES OF THE INDUSTRY!

WELL GUYS TODAY AT THE MEETING IN AUSTIN MR. SHUBECK (HOPEFULLY I SPELLED THAT CORRECTLY, IF NOT I'M SORRY), GAVE A VERY NICE SLIDE SHOW PRESENTATION OF THE GROWTH ASSOCIATED WITH ADW'S. MR. SHUBECK, ALSO SAID THAT IT WOULD ONLY GROW THE PURSES BY ABOUT 20% THOSE WERE HIS WORDS, AND I DON'T WANT TO QUOTE, BUT CHECK THE TRANSCRIPTS WHEN THEY COME OUT NEXT WEEK, TO VERIFY WHAT HE STATED.

MY MOUTH FELL OPEN, AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE HE PUT THOSE WORDS IN THE SAME SENTENCE, MODEST GROWTH!
I WOULD LOVE FOR JUNIOR GATORS RACING STABLE TO HAVE MODEST GROWTH OF 20% NEXT YEAR!!

I THINK THAT THESE ARE GOOD PEOPLE, BUT WE ARE IN 2 DIFFERENT WORLDS, AND I BELIEVE THAT WE CAN FIND A COMMON GROUND, BUT IN ORDER TO GET THERE, IT WON'T BE THEO COMING TO YOUR SIDE! WE CAN STOP THE CONFLICT BY BEGINING TO TELL THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH IS THAT WE ARE GOING TO PUT EVERYTHING SECOND TO VLT'S! IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH WE ARE TOLD WE WON'T GET THEM AGAIN THIS SESSION, WE'LL STILL POUR TIME, MONEY, RESOURCES IN THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, AND THEN WHEN IT FAILS, IT WILL BE THE FAULT OF JOE KERBY ( I HOPE I SPELLED THAT RIGHT), AND PUT OUT SOME MORE FLYERS.

THIS IS THE LAST TIME THIS WEEK I'M GOING TO TELL ONE OF THESE STORIES, I PROMISE... OK, MR SHUBECK AGAIN EXPLAINED HOW MINIMAL IT WILL BE AN IMPACT ON THE BOTTOM LINE WITH ADW'S I AGAIN LAUGH, BUT HERE WE GO......I'M GETTING MARRIED FRIDAY, AND WORKING ACL ON SATURDAY. THIS MEANS NO TIME TO GO TO RETAMA, BECAUSE I'LL BE JUMPING OVER BROOMS, AND THEN SCREAMING A BUSES THE NEXT DAY....SO MANOR IS CLOSED, AND HOW MUCH MONEY CAN THEO SCALES BET ON THE BIG FULL FIELDS AT RETAMA THIS WEEKEND......DRUM ROLL PLEASE.....................CONGRATS! YOU WIN THE PRIZE........

ZERO!!! THAT'S THE MAGICAL NUMBER!

GOOD GOSH GUYS, I KNOW MOST OF YA'LL HAVE GOTTA BE SMARTER THAN I AM, AND THIS IS HOW DIFFICULT AGAIN? A MODEST GAIN OF WHAT?

BE BLESSED,
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND, AND WIN ALL YOUR PHOTO FINISHES.

THEOPHILUS SCALES, JR.
512-529-3417

OH HECK, GLAD I READ THIS BEFORE I POSTED IT....HERE'S THE QUESTION.......HOW IS A 20% LOSS A CRISIS, AND A 20% GAIN A MODEST GAIN?
I'M DEPENDING ON 2 OR 3 OF YOU REALLY SMART GUYS TO HELP ME WITH THIS ONE!

[jellac]

Theo -
Congrats on the impending marriage!

And then I thought you might enjoy this version of reporting 'modest growth'.....(see below)


(excerpted from the TTA website with emphasis added by me) -

" 10/5/2010
(edited from Retama Park news release)

Racing Secretary James Leatherman took a look at the Retama Park entry box Tuesday morning and a broad smile swept over his face. When live racing resumes Friday for week six of 2010, fans and horsemen will see another live race each night.

“It appears our decision to add another live race each night was the right one,” said Leatherman. “We have full fields for all 10 races.”

A total of 110 horses drew into the ten-race card for an average of 11 horses each race.

Retama Park CEO Bryan Brown looked at the track’s live racing business for the first five weeks and concluded the horsemen’s purse account can fund another live race each night.

Retama's meet runs through October 23."

Imagine that.....another example of: IF you build it they will come?

Now...can you imagine that IF SHRP had gone forward with it's "Fall TB Meet" dates AND put together the right sort of overnights there might be full fields for Texas Breds and Texas Horsemen/Owners to aim for/fill as well???

[Roger]

I've just been reading this wk's TTA update. According to Dave, Mr. Shubecks projections concerning ADW is only 10%. I'll check that when the transcript is posted next week. Theo said he said 20%. I really don't trust Shubeck's numbers. He had a hard time keeping LS's average daily purse numbers in his head.

I think we need to nominate Joe for some award. What awards are available?

[keyranch]

Accountability, As asked I have given the breed associations and Retama Park a week at denounce or address the slanderous flyers that were posted at Retama Park by a board member of the HBPA and faxed out by the TTA across the state. I did have a meeting with a board member of the HBPA today, so there is some hope at least one of them has some integrity left, we will see.

The TTA board and its board members have been absolutely silent and the THP website has continued to put out misinformation about the mushrooms. They seam to be setting us up to be the next fall guys for their inability to get anything passed.

Accountability, the committee hearing on Wednesday went from being a place for honest public testimony like the boys from Fredricksburg did and the Chaplaincy group did. To a promotion for the slots or nothing agenda. It was not that it was not expected, it was again just so ___ dishonest and disgusting again. Your representation sat by and did not ask a question or try to correct the information just like all the meetings during the race dates debates. It appears they are not only willing to acheive nothing in the next session, they appear to be preparing for 2013 by not preparing for at all for any alternatives to slots.

I wish I could say they learned from the race dates debates, but they did not! We would really like to go about our bussiness and leave this to them to handle, but nothing is not an acceptable option again. The TTA had a board meeting today, so you need to contact your supposed representatives to find out what their new agenda is. You need to get it in writing, because the truth is still not an issue with these folks.

Accountability, the question is who are the associations supposed to be accountable to. The membership, the racetracks, the state of Texas, or their own personal interests. I have had a board member tell me you get on the board to represent your own interests and hopefully there are enough other folks with your same self interests to move stuff along. That is probably a good question to ask each and every board member! The other question to ask is if integrity is important in your personal bussiness, then why is it not important them as boards and associations?

The work of the mushrooms is not done and will not be until there is representation of more than the chosen few, communication, and transparency with our supposed representation. A novel approach to keeping secrets is not to have any, it could be called honesty!

[jrgators]

Theo -
Congrats on the impending marriage!

And then I thought you might enjoy this version of reporting 'modest growth'.....(see below)


(excerpted from the TTA website with emphasis added by me) -

" 10/5/2010
(edited from Retama Park news release)

Racing Secretary James Leatherman took a look at the Retama Park entry box Tuesday morning and a broad smile swept over his face. When live racing resumes Friday for week six of 2010, fans and horsemen will see another live race each night.

“It appears our decision to add another live race each night was the right one,” said Leatherman. “We have full fields for all 10 races.”

A total of 110 horses drew into the ten-race card for an average of 11 horses each race.

Retama Park CEO Bryan Brown looked at the track’s live racing business for the first five weeks and concluded the horsemen’s purse account can fund another live race each night.

Retama's meet runs through October 23."

Imagine that.....another example of: IF you build it they will come?

Now...can you imagine that IF SHRP had gone forward with it's "Fall TB Meet" dates AND put together the right sort of overnights there might be full fields for Texas Breds and Texas Horsemen/Owners to aim for/fill as well???

THANKS, THE WEDDING CEREMONY WAS PHENOMINAL!!! THE STAFF OF GREEN PASTURES RESTAURANT HERE IN AUSTIN REALLY PUT TOGETHER A REMARKABLE PACKAGE!

I'VE GOTTA RUN FOR NOW...YES I'M WORKING THE DAY AFTER THE BIG DAY!

SHUBECK DID SAY 20%, AND THAT WILL COME OUT IN THE TRANSCRIPTS. MR. HOOPER ISN'T INTERESTED IN SAYING ANYTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THE ADW, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT VLT. MR. HOOPER HAS HIS AGENDA, AND IT'S SLOTS ONLY, AND YES MR. HOOPER YOUR RECORD SPEAKS LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS YOU CAN SAY TO ME!

I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT ADW'S WILL BE ATLEAST TWICE AS HIGH AS MR. SHUBECKS REPORT.

JOE, I'M WITH YOU IN THIS FIGHT, AND I TOO WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK TO TRYING TO TRAIN MY 2 FILLIES, AND CONCENTRATE ON THAT, BUT IF WE ALLOW OUR FUTURES TO BE IN THE HANDS OF THESE TRACKS, AND THEIR ASSOCIATIONS, WE'RE DONE!

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE WELL WISHES!

GOOD RACING THIS WEEKEND TO ALL!

THEO

[keyranch]

It is a huge problem that the associations are not held to the same standards the TRC is. There should be a transcript of every meeting posted within a week so we can see who they are really representing.
They handle and disperse the breeders money or purse money, so you would think it is time for the standards to be raised. Why are they not held to the same standards of the open meeting rules that other representatives of the state are?

It would have certainly been a good thing for the horsemen if we were aware of the secret meetings that were not secret when they organized the reduction of your racing opportunity by 48%. In fact it would have been good for the boards of the associations, because they were not informed of what was going on until the racetracks and lobbyist informed the associations. This adds to a long list of shams improperly imposed by these folks on the membership and not a single one of them will step up and take responsibility for it. Do not forget the vote that was not a vote because there was nothing to vote on except the racetrack proposal.

The TTA had a meeting on Friday and we have no idea who said what or if was what was said is even supported by the membership. This is just absolutely wrong, and should not be tolerated any more. There has to be a process to get these things corrected, folks we need to start reading the rules and by laws of the associations. If that will not get them to be open and transparent there has to be a complaint system and a challenge if we have to go up the ladder.

The TTHBPA and the THP is certainly not any better. If they can not meet some standards of behavior they should not be handling the money or presenting themselves as the horsemens reprsentatives. We know that is an inside joke anyway, they only represent the common interests of the invisible tracks.

The membership of these organizations is tired of being treated like mushrooms and then being criticized for standing up together as mushrooms. It is not right for the coordinated effort to p___ on the folks as members and tell them it is raining on them.

Do not let them rewrite history, make them take responsibility for thier actions and every vicious lie told needs to be revealed. I am not advocating this but, if we were to list the names and numbers of these folks, where they work, and post lies about them at the race track and in their offices-what do you think the reaction would be. This is not something that can be swept under the rug and the slander about me put out by the board member of the TTHBPA will be addressed! How far down this rabbit hole do you want to go!

[dlove]

Joe,

I posted the meeting day and time and Dave also posted it twice on his updates. You have said in the past we do not let you know of the meetings, but yet when we do no one shows to sit and listen. Where were you? We are trying and working to let everyone know as much as possible, but instead of trying to work with us you bash us.

We ALL need to work together to open up the communication lines but it must work both ways.

[Dream2B]

Really did appreciate dlove's posting of the TTA's meeting date on this forum; a really pleasant change. With great respect though I feel that Dave Hooper's ED update did not actually invite anyone to attend the meeting. Several TTA members I spoke with did not see/missed the ED update and were not aware that the meetings were open for them to attend. Maybe Dave could put this invitation in his update in the future.

I have just a quick question or two for any Board member to reply to...please.

*when will we know what the ballot for the TTA board looks like??????
* was the flyer denouncing Joe Kerby discussed at all?
* Surely a statement can be made that the flyer was not faxed from the TTA office to anyone. I cannot imagine that the TTA Board would approve such a move and this needs to be cleared up and fast.
* ADW's - did DH actually say that Shubeck's report said only a modest 10% increase?

If any Board member wishes to email me with answers I would be very grateful. Email [email protected]

[keyranch]

I was in a meeting with a board member of the THP on Friday. Can not be in two places at once and thought my time would be more effective one on one. The faxes have the number of the TTA on the page. It is a question of why does the TTA board tolerate and promote this type of behavior toward one of its members. The board has had meetings and what exactly has been discussed we do not know. There are no transcripts to the meetings for everyone to see. The executive committee is a secret society representing the chosen few and will continue to do so as long as they can hide their statements and votes.

In all the transcripts of testimony at the TRC, never did anyone from the TTA admit they were involved in the secret meetings that were not secret, that you as a board member were probably never told about. These started last November, can you tell me there are not meetings scheduled for this November to organize another attempt to reduce the racing days down to 60! To take care of the mushroom problem or generally find new ways to manipulate their boards to avoid a plan B for the legislature.

The information that is presented to the whole board of the TTA is skewed and again there is no transcript to challenge what is said. It quickly becomes personality conflicts and not facts and ideas. The local school board meetings are more open than these folks are and more concerned with the open meetings act that the TTA and the THP, and the TTA is light years ahead of the other group and light years behind anything reasonable.

Case in point for both associations: go to the websites and count up the number of meetings held by the full board and the executive committees for both organizations in the last year. Give me the subjects of the meetings and how did people vote! The website is already created and a simple recording can be made for transcripts, it is not a huge cost. There is a huge amount of anger and mistrust of the associations and that was not created by us and that was created by their actions.

My final point dlove is that I am not the one that put out and promoted the Flyers to the public, the TTA did and it is their responsibility to respond! Every board member should be asking how this happened, how many of these things were faxed and where did they go, and what can be done to address the situation, you did not and have not! It is like a rape case-you are trying to put the responsibility on the victim for the actions taken by both associations and I will not take that responsibility.

I understand your point of view, but if you really want to address this situation as the TTA's representative than give me a call. The phone number is on the Flyers that have been sent out by the TTA, or posted at the racetrack!

[dlove]

Dream2B: Please see answers below:

*when will we know what the ballot for the TTA board looks like?????? We approved the nominations and ballots should be out November 1st to members. As of now we are waiting on profiles to be filled out so we can have all the info for the members.
* was the flyer denouncing Joe Kerby discussed at all? No we did not discuss it as the TTA had nothing to do with it so it was not brought up by anyone there.
* Surely a statement can be made that the flyer was not faxed from the TTA office to anyone. I cannot imagine that the TTA Board would approve such a move and this needs to be cleared up and fast. Again we had nothing to do with this and did not know about it in advance either. I cannot speak for the organization but in my opinion since we did not know in advance or support it we should not make a statement on it. I personally (I cannot speak for other board members) think it was a vicious personal attack and uncalled for, but that is MY opinion only. I do know that there were a few copies faxed from the TTA office but that was because people on the board called to see what the deal was and requested to see it so we new what it said. I was one of those people as I wanted to be clear on the contents and not go on rumors. I do not know who else did but I can say I did.
* ADW's - did DH actually say that Shubeck's report said only a modest 10% increase? If you see Dave’s update he posted what he heard from the meeting.

I hope I got answers to your questions for you. As I have stated before on here I am trying to be as transparent as possible on here and answer questions if I can.
Feel free to call me as well and thanks for opening up the line of communication.

Delwin Lovell

[dlove]

The flyer was not put out by the TTA to the public. As I stated above there were a few board members who called and asked about it (me being one) and asked that a copy be faxed to me. You know who put this thing out and have stated it here, but yet you drag the TTA in on it as well. As I stated above I personally think (again my opinion) it was a vicious attack and uncalled for. Also as far as comparing this to a rape case; sir that was even lower than the flyer itself. There was no cause for that at all!!

I know of no secret meetings held about race days. I posted on here prior how the vote for the TTA went and gave my opinion so I think everyone knows my stance (Board and Members) I said before I want transparency when it comes to votes and have not been shy about that in the past. We had several votes last week that will be made public as a matter of fact. I am not against you here and actually am trying to open up the lines of communication but for every post you bash me or take a shot at the TTA. I realize you do not like some members of our board and that is fine, but there are ways to handle that. As I posted before vote us out (again me included). That is the good part about it. The members hold the power.

Below is a prime example of one last shot you take. Let’s open up the lines Joe and not shoot each other every chance we get.

I understand your point of view, but if you really want to address this situation as the TTA's representative than give me a call. The phone number is on the Flyers that have been sent out by the TTA, or posted at the racetrack!

Communication is the key!!

Delwin Lovell

[keyranch]

I appreciate your answers and honesty. The issue I still have is the time frames. The HBPA board member posted the flyers on Friday and we did not know what was going on until Monday and did not post comments and copies until after that. The first call from a fax was on Saturday and that was not a TTA board member and I did not understand where the questions were coming from or what they were talking about. The second call came on Sunday and that was a veterinarian that was not a board member and received it from the TTA. I do not know when he received it but it was not solicited he said and I have no reason to doubt the statement. Next call came Monday or Tuesday and it was a TTA board member and he said it arrived unsolicited at his office. My best guess would be that the HBPA sent it over to the TTA before it ever appeared at the track since they had seen/heard about it before it was posted at the track.

This if far enough to make my point, and I did post the flyer on the web for everyone to see. There are questions to be asked and answered by the TTA for their actions. It would have been real simple if they would have said how many of these things were sent out, when, and where. There should have been date/time stamps on these things. What was their intent on sending them out unsolicited and who approved this to be done!

The board should be asking these questions and taking measures to make sure it does not happen again, and there should have been communication with us before it ever happened in the first place. We have not even crossed into the simple fact that the flyer is simply unsubstantiated lies.

The board member from the HBPA with some help we believe, started this, but by sending these things out unsolicited the TTA is every bit as guilty in propagating libelous statements against one of its members. Measures need to be taken and changes need to be made and someone is responsible! The issue has to be resolved simply because any other mushroom could be their next target to be slandered!

[Dream2B]

Delwin: Thank you so much for your honest and heartfelt answers. You are my hero and I wish more Board members would post here also. This is what we need in the future going forward. I really look forward to seeing the votes etc. from the Friday TTA meeting. Would it be in order in the future to have questions asked at the meetings thru' a Board member. I just can't get to Austin for meetings. Would certainly like to attend any meetings held here in N. TX. Again kudos to you.

[keyranch]

This brings me back to the behavior of the association. The mushrooms that were involved in the race dates debate and read all the transcripts and made calls to maintain some semblance of a year round racing in Texas seam to be much more aware of the activities of the TTA and sometimes lack of it in those meetings and debate than the board members. You do know the complaints to the TRC by the TTA and HBPA about the length of the process for the race dates issue. As board members you have not been told that the length was the same as it always has been by the TRC guidelines, so you have to ask yourself what are these folks complaining about?

The difference in the process this year is that the folks had a voice in the process for a change. The boards of both associations need to be asking the questions, and they need to be answered how could the TTA be involved in six months of dates negotiations and come up with a plan and promote a plan to reduce the race dates by 48%. Who, what, where, and when were they involved. It is strange to us that in all the TRC meetings it is never said that the TTA was even involved in those meetings; which is real strange because we were told different and they are supposed to be there. Read the transcripts at the meetings, how well was the TTA represented in the meetings and how in the world could the board sit idle and allow this to happen. The excuse of we were not told or that we were misinformed just does not cut it. The mushrooms knew and were willing to work to save their industry against the very people elected to represent us. I do understand that for the new board members the meetings started before you were even sworn in, but for the other folks where were you when it came time to stand up. Only one board member testified during the race dates debate. Only two board members attended the meetings, and the impact of the TTA race dates proposal would have been devastating to the industry.

The associations can heal themselves or an outside group needs to investigate and make changes in how these folks operate. The attack on me is just a sympton in a couple of very sick organizations that have a very big parasite load. It would take several wormings to get rid of the worms so that a healthy animal can be trusted to perform as intended.

That is my opinion and I assure you it is shared by many members of both organizations. The mushrooms and other like minded individuals have other things to do rather than press on with this change or nothing campaign to solve the issues with our representation. Until there is some transparency and structure to assure us we will not be going through another race dates problem next year we will not go away and we will get louder and louder.