Beaten by the Racetrack Surface

[Bast]

When she left the starting gate one could easily tell she didn't have "it." She was totally uncomfortable with the surface - it stung her ankles and cannons, shocked her shoulders and she didn't particularly like getting some dirt kicked into her face (how dare they!).

Looking back at the replay and watching her run I thought she was going to break apart, kinda like Forrest Gump running down the red dirt road shattering his leg braces. At the fourth turn, most of these not suited for the distance fashion breds started backing up . . . she weaved her way through and was clear with 330 yards to go. She loafed for eight furlongs and didn't have enough to catch the winner! In that race, on that track, at that distance, she was exposed . . . a pretender, beating soft fields on soft racetracks. I doubt she would have won the 09' Classic without a track favoring bias.

How Great was she when she was beaten by the racetrack surface?

I suggest you look into NASCAR racing. Horses are not and will never be machines.

I've followed this game for 50 years now, and I've learned how rare a horse like Zenyatta is.

[Whirlaway]

I call them as I see em' without malice a forethought and I will repeat: she loafed around the track for eight furlongs, weaved through horses around the fourth turn (that bend right before the stretch) and she didn't have enough to run down the winner! In that race, on that track, at that distance, she was exposed . . . a pretender, only good enough to beat soft fields on soft racetracks.

Anyone with any handicapping skill without Zen - ya - tta blinkers on could see this one coming. . . I didn't have those blinkers on.

If she was what everyone thinks she is, why didn't she run at many different tracks, in many different states, under many different conditions? Why not? Someone try to explain. The trainer knew that all it took was just one foreign racetrack surface to expose her undefeated fantasy world . . . would she have won the 09' Classic without a track favoring bias? I didn't get an answer!

Never mind . . . I'll leave you guys in peace now in your fantasy world until the next fashion bred pretender shows up on the radar at which time I'll be back to try and snap you out of it.

[Bast]

through horses around the fourth turn (that bend right before the stretch)

I have personally walked with my very own feet around the main track at Churchill and I can vouch that there are two turns to the track.

[kimberley mine]

would she have won the 09' Classic without a track favoring bias?

Yes, she would have. Go watch the replay, especially how she did a 40mph half-pass between horses that would have made Moorlands Totilas hang his head in shame at his utter lack of athletic ability. There wasn't anything out there stopping her that day.

The problem with being an out-of-the-clouds closer is that if you don't get there in the end, you lose. Full stop. Go watch Holy Bull's Haskell again...or Gio Ponti in the Mile. Zenyatta didn't make it in time yesterday. She's still a phenomenal horse.

Never mind . . . I'll leave you guys in peace now in your fantasy world until the next fashion bred pretender shows up on the radar at which time I'll be back to try and snap you out of it.

You're so funny.

Fashion-bred pretender like that granddaughter of Danzig who's inbred to Northern Dancer AND a grandson of Nasrullah, who can't hold up past a mile?* That sort of fashion-bred pretender?

Or the one who has won the premier weight-for-age race in his home country and nearly won the richest race of them all, the one who has six out of eight 4th-generation stallions on his sire's side tracing to Phalaris, who is going to be racing across the pond next year and probably coming to visit at BC time? That one?

Oh, you must be referring to the one who has run nine times this year, getting better and better with every run, who lost the first time she met older horses to a very strong, consistent 4yo runner? The one who has run every distance from 7 to 10f and has never, ever finished out of the money in her career? Surely that's the "fashion-bred" you mean.

Dear Snoopy in the Doghouse, if I had any one of them in my barn I would be WEEPING with joy all the way to the winner's circle. You, meanwhile, would be standing on your silly little holier than thou faux-marble plinth and whinging and wringing your hands about how the breed is going to hell in a handbasket and called darn good horses pretenders for the cardinal sin of losing by a head to other darn good horses.

*Yes.

[diomed]

Just ignore. This is a member of the "louis" cult. In fact, the head of the cult has even declared Z a NFB. Not that the opinion of the cult matters. lol.

[Sysonby]

Just ignore. This is a member of the "louis" cult. In fact, the head of the cult has even declared Z a NFB. Not that the opinion of the cult matters. lol.

Well he had to. If she is a "fashionbred", how does he explain how she held together for three campaigns at the highest level? Although if she left the track in a van, I'm sure she would be an "FB".

[louis finochio]

Z is a NFB, her robust conformation gives her away, those anemic Fb conformations have set our tbs back light years. Z has prolific numbers of NP sire line mares, the same profile of NP mares that Curlin had.

[zinn21]

She handled the track fine. What she didn't like was the dirt in her face. That's why she was so far back. She finally decided the hell with it and went on. She ran the last quarter in 23 4/5. Horse don't run last quarters in 23 and change when they don't handle the track. This argument is preposterous.

[TJ]

I call them as I see em' without malice a forethought and I will repeat: she loafed around the track for eight furlongs, weaved through horses around the fourth turn (that bend right before the stretch) and she didn't have enough to run down the winner! In that race, on that track, at that distance, she was exposed . . . a pretender, only good enough to beat soft fields on soft racetracks.

Anyone with any handicapping skill without Zen - ya - tta blinkers on could see this one coming. . . I didn't have those blinkers on.

If she was what everyone thinks she is, why didn't she run at many different tracks, in many different states, under many different conditions? Why not? Someone try to explain. The trainer knew that all it took was just one foreign racetrack surface to expose her undefeated fantasy world . . . would she have won the 09' Classic without a track favoring bias? I didn't get an answer!

Never mind . . . I'll leave you guys in peace now in your fantasy world until the next fashion bred pretender shows up on the radar at which time I'll be back to try and snap you out of it.

Hi Whirl,
I was and still am a fan of greatness. I've seen a lot of horses and been close up and personal with animals many of you have only read about. Through the years you realize just how hard it is to win any race, not just one of the magnitude of a BC Classic. There are so many more opportunities to fail in winning a race, then there is to actually get the job done. I look at horses very objectively....I've learned it is very important to know how to handicap and have a true gauge of how capable your horse is and how effective he will be in any given race you decide to drop him in. As a handicapper I saw all the pitfalls in Z's campaign, I saw all the holes in her low race ratings, I saw that she rarely stepped out of her comfort zone in California, I saw that she was thought of as a synthetic track expert, I saw that she raced against lesser competition.....all these things you have mentioned. Having said all this, I will try to give my thoughts in answering your questions.

"If she was what everyone thinks she is, why didn't she run at many different tracks, in many different states, under many different conditions? Why not? Someone try to explain. The trainer knew that all it took was just one foreign racetrack surface to expose her undefeated fantasy world . . . would she have won the 09' Classic without a track favoring bias? I didn't get an answer! ........................
In my opinion (have no inside on this), the main reason Z didn't make all those trips was because the trainer felt it was in her best interest NOT to ship. If you think putting a horse of her caliber, size, strength and sometimes quirky attitude on board a plane to ship cross country is easy.....think again. Do you know they carry a lethal injection for each horse that is shipping by plane, in case they freak out....they are destroyed? John Sherriffs is a man who loves his horses and wants them near him at all times. Z was no easy project and after all the work it took to get her to where she is, he didn't want to have a stupid accident get in the way. In his eyes the BC was the most important race of the year and it was the race he pointed Zenyatta for every year (and made the engagement....that's a feat in itself). In this way he limited the number of times Zenyatta had to get on a plane and at the same time thinking she would be running against the best so why would he have to ship all year long to prove what he knew about her. His plan would have worked if the BC last year was on dirt....there is a bias against year end honors and horses who run primarily over synthetic tracks.....this hopefully will change this year with the new dirt course being laid down. Z beat what was there for her to beat but many were dirt horses who couldn't handle synthetic and all she had left was Gio Ponte, a grass horse who liked the synthetic track.....this did nothing to bolster or impress the panel's voting.

I call them as I see em' without malice a forethought and I will repeat: she loafed around the track for eight furlongs, weaved through horses around the fourth turn (that bend right before the stretch) and she didn't have enough to run down the winner! In that race, on that track, at that distance, she was exposed . . . a pretender, only good enough to beat soft fields on soft racetracks

The CD race oval is 1 mile in length, going 1 1/4 miles it starts in the chute a quarter mile from the finish line. Then once around the oval (two turns) for a total of 1 1/4 miles. Zenyatta had a tough time acclimating under the lights....the flash camera's were going off like fireworks all around her.The groom had his hands full and was pleading with the crowd to shhuush, to no avail, she was going beyond her nervous strut almost into angst and anticipation as she pawed the ground more than usual....she was able to keep her wits about her and didn't come totally unglued....a tribute to her. Yet she was more upset than I've seen her before a race. That's why she came out of the gate a bit hesitantly, that and the dirt being kicked back at her had her out of sorts the first part of the race till she got close to the first turn away from the noise of the crowd. As she settled down and quickly became used to the dirt coming back at her, her stride began to smooth out and she put her mind on running about a 3/8ths of a mile too late. To me, this is what I saw and no one can tell me any different. If she was an ordinary horse she would have stopped after the first 1/4 mile of that race. She isn't ordinary, she's not a pretender and she is as honest and willing as any horse ever was in the history of racing. Kudo's to John Sherriffs in keeping her sound, safe, happy and enthused all these years. No one else would have even gotten her to the races.....just my opinion. TJ

[louis finochio]

Secretariat didnt like the Belmont track, as the dirt clods were stinging his face. So he went for the TC in runaway style.

[TJ]

Secretariat didnt like the Belmont track, as the dirt clods were stinging his face. So he went for the TC in runaway style.

Hi Lou,
Who ever told you that? He holds two track records at Belmont Park, trained over it his whole career, in the early years under my good friend Jimmy Gaffney (may he rest in peace). He'd run through fire if you asked him to, ridiculous! TJ

[Whirlaway]

"Yes, she would have. [referring to 09' BCClassic] There wasn't anything out there stopping her that day."

Her career-high 112 Beyers Figure in that race is tied with Saint Liam for 2nd lowest in the races's 26 year history.

"The problem with being an out-of-the-clouds closer is that if you don't get there in the end, you lose . . . She's still a phenomenal horse."

Phonomenal? How many track records has she equaled or set? Say zero; zilch; nada; none.
~
"Just ignore. This is a member of the "louis" cult. In fact, the head of the cult has even declared Z a NFB. Not that the opinion of the cult matters. "

Of course you know that Christians were once considered a cult. It took a long time before their beliefs were accepted.
~
"Well he had to. If she is a "fashionbred", how does he explain how she held together for three campaigns at the highest level?"

Soft track racing against moderate competition.
~
"She finally decided the hell with it and went on. She ran the last quarter in 23 4/5. Horse don't run last quarters in 23 and change when they don't handle the track. This argument is preposterous."

Is that time correct? Doubtful you have reviewed the official chart . . .
~
"In my opinion (have no inside on this), the main reason Z didn't make all those trips was because the trainer felt it was in her best interest NOT to ship. If you think putting a horse of her caliber, size, strength and sometimes quirky attitude on board a plane to ship cross country is easy.....think again. Do you know they carry a lethal injection for each horse that is shipping by plane, in case they freak out....they are destroyed? "

It is my opinion the main reason they didn't make all those trips is because she would have been beaten; why tarnish an unblemished record? Horses have been shipped cross country, cross oceans since there was horse racing . . . The lethal injection seems kind of extreme when one can use a tranquilizer.
~
~
Hardly a phenomenal horse.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Whirlaway

I have re-read your post here several times and each time I tried to write a response to it I stopped because I do not want it to sound like I am making some kind of excuse for Zenyatta's performance, but I do have to say a few words.

First, this was a two turn race what fourth turn are you talking about, are you sure you watched the right race?

I do not know how long you have been associated with racing but one thing is obvious in all of your posts here and over on Dr. Roman's forum, they continue to demonstrate that you have a very limited knowledge of the sport in general and when assessing the merits of runners that knowledge appears to be null and void.

Zenyatta is many things to many people but a pretender is certainly not one of them.

DDT

Coming back to horse racing relatively late, I had heard of Zenyatta but never watched her run.

I watched every minute of the Breeder's Cup coverage (it was superb, BTW).

And she won my heart. Two more strides and she'd have had Blame. So how big a 'pretender' could Zenyatta be?

[Tucumcari]

For years, we've seen too many horses like Quality Road. He teases us with his brilliance and for 90 days, he's the best thing since Secretariat. But those horses always disappoint, either because they are campaigned too cautiously, or they are retired prematurely to cash in or they get hurt or usually because maybe they never fulfilled their gaudy promise.

Yesterday we saw a mare who never needs excuses; she never has phoned it; she never disappoints. How jaded have we become as racing fans that trying for 2 straight BC Classics on 2 different (as different as you can get frankly) surfaces with a mare isn't an audacious act? Have we forgotten Azeri so quickly?

Just like Slew finally got respect in loss, she should be respected for yesterday. We can debate why it happened but I don't think it is debatable by reasonable people how remarkable she is.

Agree 1000%
This loss doesn't detract at all from her brilliance. People have b*tched and nmoaned tht she rarely beat G1 company over dirt. Here it is folks. She beat all but one. She beat QR who was falsely one of the most respected horses in the country and the best three year old colt in the country. The only horse she didn't beat was Blame and another jump would have had a different out come.
The mare has done EVERYTHING asked of her. She is a sensational horse who I am glad I had a chance to witness.

[Tucumcari]

She handled the track fine. What she didn't like was the dirt in her face. That's why she was so far back. She finally decided the hell with it and went on. She ran the last quarter in 23 4/5. Horse don't run last quarters in 23 and change when they don't handle the track. This argument is preposterous.

She din't handle it early. She was stumbling thu the surface. It is clearly evident and Mikey confirmed. To me that makes the effort even more impressive.