I am not sure if this is the correct place to post. But I wanted to see if anybody on here had any experiences in breeding mares to pinhook in partnership. To clarify I mean with 4 or more partners involved. I have done foal shares and different deals with somebody but I am interested in forming a partnership for a top quality broodmare prospect that has been presented to me. She is by a leading sire and out of a Red Ransom mare. The family has a lot of black type and she herself is a stakes winner. So the quality is there for people. But first I wanted to see if this sort of partnership has been a good experience for people and what problems have come from such deals. I think it certainly could be a wonderful opportunity for breeders who cannot afford to purchase mares like this by themselves. But I'd love to hear peoples thoughts or experiences in regards to breeding in partnership. If people do not feel comfortable posting on the forum feel free to pm me or I will be happy to send you my email address as well.
Thanks,
Russell
Breeding Partnership
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, Jessi P, madelyn
I have never been involved in a partnership like that but the things that seem to me like they could be potential problems are:
Who picks the stallion that the mare is bred to and what are the criteria for that choice? Does a stud fee (or range) need to be decided upon by all partners?
What if the mare doesn't get in foal and needs to be kept for another year? (since you're referring to her as a pinhooking prospect, I assume the intent is to sell her once she's in foal?)
The market is currently very unkind to those who aren't exactly what it wants. Hundreds of surplus mares were sold out of the country in November and more will follow in January, so you really need to know what her value is, not just today but also in a year from now. (It's great that she's a stakes winner but it also matters where. The fact that her family has "a lot of blacktype" doesn't necessarily mean that she comes from a commercially viable family.) In addition to the stud fee, also add in carrying costs of approx 15K to get her from now until next November to cover such things as board, insurance, and vet fees--prices dependant upon where she's going to live.
Suppose some sort of veterinary emergency arises in the next year, will there be contingency funds set aside and who will make the decisions about her course of care?
What process will be used to determine her reserve when she sells next year?
Who picks the stallion that the mare is bred to and what are the criteria for that choice? Does a stud fee (or range) need to be decided upon by all partners?
What if the mare doesn't get in foal and needs to be kept for another year? (since you're referring to her as a pinhooking prospect, I assume the intent is to sell her once she's in foal?)
The market is currently very unkind to those who aren't exactly what it wants. Hundreds of surplus mares were sold out of the country in November and more will follow in January, so you really need to know what her value is, not just today but also in a year from now. (It's great that she's a stakes winner but it also matters where. The fact that her family has "a lot of blacktype" doesn't necessarily mean that she comes from a commercially viable family.) In addition to the stud fee, also add in carrying costs of approx 15K to get her from now until next November to cover such things as board, insurance, and vet fees--prices dependant upon where she's going to live.
Suppose some sort of veterinary emergency arises in the next year, will there be contingency funds set aside and who will make the decisions about her course of care?
What process will be used to determine her reserve when she sells next year?
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milhouse241
- Suckling
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:11 pm
- Location: Opelousas, LA
Race Partner
Hey russ... I replied with a private message to you last week. I dont know that you got it.
Having been involved in a partnership before my "gut" thought would be to tell folks to run for the hills! This type of partnership in my experience seldom works out because rarely do parties agree on a) where the mare should reside especially if more than one party has a farm - because one person is paying board while one is collecting board 
, b) who the mare should be bred to especially if more than one party has an opinion, c) decisions on what consignor to use when selling the mare and who the consignor should talk to regarding the sale, etc... Trust me there are many issues that arise that most folks wouldn't even think would be an issue that somehow manage to come up in these circumstances. It usually becomes a no-win situation for someone, in my humble opinion (and experience).
, b) who the mare should be bred to especially if more than one party has an opinion, c) decisions on what consignor to use when selling the mare and who the consignor should talk to regarding the sale, etc... Trust me there are many issues that arise that most folks wouldn't even think would be an issue that somehow manage to come up in these circumstances. It usually becomes a no-win situation for someone, in my humble opinion (and experience)."We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
clh wrote:Having been involved in a partnership before my "gut" thought would be to tell folks to run for the hills! This type of partnership in my experience seldom works out because rarely do parties agree on a) where the mare should reside especially if more than one party has a farm - because one person is paying board while one is collecting board
Having written, negotiated & administered contracts for years, I agree completely with this.
First, as horse-people, we're all opinionated & sure we are right. I used to say if you put 2 horsepeople in a room, you'll come out with at least 2 different opinions on any topic & sometimes, three. You're talking 4 partners, so increase that ability to disagree exponentially. Everyone needs to be reasonable, able to compromise - and even if THAT miracle occurs, you should have talked everything through ahead of time & agreed on a course of action, should things go wrong.
So, at a minimum, you will need to sit down & talk out the good, the bad & the ugly of the entire transaction - from start to finish, focusing on what happens when something goes wrong (as it inevitably will) - who makes decisions if the mare is seriously injured? What if one of you wants to save the mare & the other doesn't want the added expense? What if there is trouble foaling & you can save the mare or the foal, but not both - and one of you wants to keep the mare & try again & the other wants to race the foal & a 3rd just wants out of the expense? What if one of you falls in love with the foal & doesn't want to sell it? What if ALL of you fall in love with the foal & want it, but no more partners? What if one of you runs out of money (or interest in the project) & the mare hasn't even foaled, yet? What happens if your partner(s) just stop paying their share for no reason? What if one of you was supposed to pay the van driver & neglected to do so & the others have to pay to avoid going to court because, after all, it is your horse, too?
The contract needs to cover what happens when something goes wrong, as well as when everything goes right.
And most importantly, if you start feeling a little uncomfortable during the discussions, that you have philosophical differences with one or more potential partners, or don't trust one or more to work together when the going gets rough - WALK AWAY.
