Inbreeding

[btcountess]

There was a discussion on FB about a horse that died a week ago at PHA from Colic/UC and someone commented on inbreeding and how so many of those horses break down. Here is a comment from Jane White answering that:
Inbreeding: Some horsemen love it. They say that an inbred filly makes an excellent broodmare and that an inbred colt makes an excellent runner. Research has shown me that the top racehorses in the country, the graded stakes winners, are by and large FREE of inbreeding through 4 generations.

Those horsemen who are against close inbreeding cite soundness and mental issues in the horse, and that "hybrid vigor" is something to be sought by any serious breeder who wants a superior horse which will run well far beyond a few races.

As a representative of 2 fine G1 stakes winning, track record setting millionaires which were themselves not inbred through 4 generations and which are complete outcrosses for Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer line mares, namely Buzzards Bay by Marco Bay (26 starts) and Fastness (Ire) by Rousillon (24 starts), both standing at Timber Ridge Farm in Felton, PA, www.timberridgefarmpa.com, I certainly have living proof at hand that freedom from Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer bloodlines were quite effective in producing outstanding, sound runners which each raced to age 6.

[Roger]

We really have never defined inbreeding. Second cousins have very very little chance of showing or having traits from the common ancestor. Just off my head that means any common ancestor in the 3rd remove or more carries the same weight as any other ancestor in the 3rd remove. This holds true except in those individuals where a given trait was bred to. In my opinion 3X3's are just names in the pedigree.

[ct2346]

Wait til Louis gets his hands on this one.

[Shammy Davis]

[Bast]

We really have never defined inbreeding. Second cousins have very very little chance of showing or having traits from the common ancestor. Just off my head that means any common ancestor in the 3rd remove or more carries the same weight as any other ancestor in the 3rd remove. This holds true except in those individuals where a given trait was bred to. In my opinion 3X3's are just names in the pedigree.

Until the last few hundred years, most humans were the result of cousin X cousin crosses because hardly anyone--except for pesky invaders--went far from home. Mostly, we have survived.

[louis finochio]

I have never seen a FB race beyond 6, as most of them have unsoundness problems early on. The breed has become Inbred thru the same Mr. P, ND, one cross is enough, but more than that invites unsoundness.

[Bast]

I have never seen a FB race beyond 6, as most of them have unsoundness problems early on. The breed has become Inbred thru the same Mr. P, ND, one cross is enough, but more than that invites unsoundness.

Except in the cases declared exempt from this rule...

If you are going to stick with this Phalaris Plague theory, you're going to have to define it precisely and exactly, and not make exceptions when individuals run past your predictions, or say they were raised on beneficial soil (a lot of horses are raised on hay grown a long way from where it is ultimately fed...) or that a particular ancestor from a male line other than Phalaris explains evertything.

Can you direct us to photos of examples of the Phalaris degenerates?

Until you make a clear statement, and never waiver from it, your pronouncements will continue to read as arbitrary, mutable, and unscientific.

[Fireslam]

Im thinking the initial post is not about discussion, but about advertising. The list of top horses with inbreeding within 4 generations is too numerous to mention, which includes Zenyatta.

[Linda_d]

We really have never defined inbreeding. Second cousins have very very little chance of showing or having traits from the common ancestor. Just off my head that means any common ancestor in the 3rd remove or more carries the same weight as any other ancestor in the 3rd remove. This holds true except in those individuals where a given trait was bred to. In my opinion 3X3's are just names in the pedigree.

Until the last few hundred years, most humans were the result of cousin X cousin crosses because hardly anyone--except for pesky invaders--went far from home. Mostly, we have survived.

True dat -- and not many 6-toed, 6 fingered idjit amongst us, either!

[ElPrado]

Now, let's see the operators of this site send you a bill for the advertising you just did.

[wilf]

I for one will forgive a little "licence" taken while trying to explore the eternal question of inbreeding and it's drawbacks. If you really want to have fun with that just drive around the hills of Mountaineer Park for a few days, there are so many twins around here although that may be just as much the fault of the power plants and toxic waste incinerator across the river.

[Laurierace]

I am pretty sure the scientific definition of inbreeding is a close cross that did not work. If it works its called linebreeding.

[Roger]

I am pretty sure the scientific definition of inbreeding is a close cross that did not work. If it works its called linebreeding.

I like that one. To me inbreeding is an attempt to capture an individual's positive traits in its offspring by breeding back to that individual through its offspring. Even when its done right, there will be a lot waste to cull. That fact would indicate that this is a herd practice.

[Bast]

I am pretty sure the scientific definition of inbreeding is a close cross that did not work. If it works its called linebreeding.

Nope. Inbreeding would be a brother X sister cross. Linebreeding would be a pedigree in which all of the great-grandsires were the same stallion.

[Laurierace]

It was a joke.