Suave to Florida

[Terrapin Flyer]

I know what your saying...but by throwing out a stat that he has 153 of racing age is misleading. Why not just say "lets see what his second crop does this year". This isn't the first time you have made assumptions or comments on stallions using the 2yo crop that hasn't run to prove your point, so maybe since I've seen it before I know you like to skew stats to make a point. I agree he is not commercial right now, but his pedigree does not scream 2yo sire and in the past month or 2 he has had a couple horses jump up and hit the board in some decent races.

All I'm saying is if your going to call a horse a commercial failure, do it with real stats, don't fluff it up to make the horse look bad.

[fastappy]

I know what your saying...but by throwing out a stat that he has 153 of racing age is misleading. Why not just say "lets see what his second crop does this year". This isn't the first time you have made assumptions or comments on stallions using the 2yo crop that hasn't run to prove your point, so maybe since I've seen it before I know you like to skew stats to make a point. I agree he is not commercial right now, but his pedigree does not scream 2yo sire and in the past month or 2 he has had a couple horses jump up and hit the board in some decent races.

All I'm saying is if your going to call a horse a commercial failure, do it with real stats, don't fluff it up to make the horse look bad.

I didn't skew those stats those are from Equineline, which is what the Jockey Club utilizes. I don't make assumptions that is your department when you state things like, "FASTAPPY, Suave only had 83 live foals in his first crop...so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the 150+ stat...please don't tell me you're including 2yo's of '11 because if you've seen a 2yo race this year then I'll accept that stat."

You have a foal by that stallion so you suddenly became defensive when you wrongly thought I was putting the stallion down. I was simply saying we'll have to wait and see what his foals do to see what he is capable of as a stallion. I made no mention of two year olds running in 2011, etc.

I have no personal interest whether he does well or doesn't, I was simply commenting on the subject at hand on this public forum. Try doing a better job comprehending what someone is saying before you fly off the handle or maybe ask for some clarification.

Again, I don't skew the stats to try to prove my point you just have a comprehension problem.

[fastappy]

I know what your saying...but by throwing out a stat that he has 153 of racing age is misleading. Why not just say "lets see what his second crop does this year". This isn't the first time you have made assumptions or comments on stallions using the 2yo crop that hasn't run to prove your point, so maybe since I've seen it before I know you like to skew stats to make a point. I agree he is not commercial right now, but his pedigree does not scream 2yo sire and in the past month or 2 he has had a couple horses jump up and hit the board in some decent races.

All I'm saying is if your going to call a horse a commercial failure, do it with real stats, don't fluff it up to make the horse look bad.

I didn't skew those stats those are from Equineline, which is what the Jockey Club utilizes. I don't make assumptions that is your department when you state things like, "FASTAPPY, Suave only had 83 live foals in his first crop...so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the 150+ stat...please don't tell me you're including 2yo's of '11 because if you've seen a 2yo race this year then I'll accept that stat."

You have a foal by that stallion so you suddenly became defensive when you wrongly thought I was putting the stallion down. I was simply saying we'll have to wait and see what his foals do to see what he is capable of as a stallion. I made no mention of two year olds running in 2011, etc.

I have no personal interest whether he does well or doesn't, I was simply commenting on the subject at hand on this public forum. Try doing a better job comprehending what someone is saying before you fly off the handle or maybe ask for some clarification.

Again, I don't skew the stats to try to prove my point you just have a comprehension problem.

[fastappy]

I know what your saying...but by throwing out a stat that he has 153 of racing age is misleading. Why not just say "lets see what his second crop does this year". This isn't the first time you have made assumptions or comments on stallions using the 2yo crop that hasn't run to prove your point, so maybe since I've seen it before I know you like to skew stats to make a point. I agree he is not commercial right now, but his pedigree does not scream 2yo sire and in the past month or 2 he has had a couple horses jump up and hit the board in some decent races.

All I'm saying is if your going to call a horse a commercial failure, do it with real stats, don't fluff it up to make the horse look bad.

I didn't skew those stats those are from Equineline, which is what the Jockey Club utilizes. I don't make assumptions that is your department when you state things like, "FASTAPPY, Suave only had 83 live foals in his first crop...so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the 150+ stat...please don't tell me you're including 2yo's of '11 because if you've seen a 2yo race this year then I'll accept that stat."

You have a foal by that stallion so you suddenly became defensive when you wrongly thought I was putting the stallion down. I was simply saying we'll have to wait and see what his foals do to see what he is capable of as a stallion. I made no mention of two year olds running in 2011, etc.

I have no personal interest whether he does well or doesn't, I was simply commenting on the subject at hand on this public forum. Try doing a better job comprehending what someone is saying before you fly off the handle or maybe ask for some clarification.

Again, I don't skew the stats to try to prove my point you just have a comprehension problem.

[LB]

Definitely a step in the wrong direction, and having his fee cut in more than half exacerbates the downward valuation. He will really have to come up with some runners to recover from this move, imo. Not impossible but unlikely with lesser mares.

His yearling prices make more sense with a $4,500 stud fee. He needs more starters from of his foals of racing age (153) to really determine what he can/cannot do, but commercially he's done, imo.

FWIW, I read this post the same way the others did and had the same response--that you can't criticize a stallion for not having enough runners from his first two crops when it isn't possible for his second crop to have run yet.

You may have meant to say something different, but that's what you wrote.

[fastappy]

Definitely a step in the wrong direction, and having his fee cut in more than half exacerbates the downward valuation. He will really have to come up with some runners to recover from this move, imo. Not impossible but unlikely with lesser mares.

His yearling prices make more sense with a $4,500 stud fee. He needs more starters from of his foals of racing age (153) to really determine what he can/cannot do, but commercially he's done, imo.

FWIW, I read this post the same way the others did and had the same response--that you can't criticize a stallion for not having enough runners from his first two crops when it isn't possible for his second crop to have run yet.

You may have meant to say something different, but that's what you wrote.

I know what I wrote it's been repeated ad nauseum, "... to really determine what he can/cannot do" meaning it hasn't been established what his potential is until more of his horses of racing age run.

If that's an unfair critique to some, so be it. Let me just add that Suave is a very nice horse, very well bred. From a pedigree, conformation (from what I can see), and race record he certainly has a lot of potential (not commercial though). I think he is a very appealing horse.

[Terrapin Flyer]

I don't have a problem with comprehension. I have a problem with the way you try to make a point...as do others. It seems you have a problem making a statement. Why not just say lets see how his second crop of 2yo's run this year or his second crop to race better step it up this year. Rather than make it seem that he had very few horses to run out of 153 that are of racing age (even though no races for half of those have been written yet).

As for being defensive about owning/training one I could care less who the filly is by, she looks the part. I don't come on this message board to back up decisions I made about horses I have bought for myself or clients. Whether the stallions stands in KY for $100k or FL for $4.5k the horse I have is what it is and anything you or I say about her sire isn't going to change that. When she hits the track next month she will prove what she is, I have 3 other new ones coming in all by different sires. They all will start off the same & their talent and mental capacity will carry them forward or backward, not what someone writes about their stallion on this website.

[fastappy]

I don't have a problem with comprehension. I have a problem with the way you try to make a point...as do others. It seems you have a problem making a statement. Why not just say lets see how his second crop of 2yo's run this year or his second crop to race better step it up this year. Rather than make it seem that he had very few horses to run out of 153 that are of racing age (even though no races for half of those have been written yet).

As for being defensive about owning/training one I could care less who the filly is by, she looks the part. I don't come on this message board to back up decisions I made about horses I have bought for myself or clients. Whether the stallions stands in KY for $100k or FL for $4.5k the horse I have is what it is and anything you or I say about her sire isn't going to change that. When she hits the track next month she will prove what she is, I have 3 other new ones coming in all by different sires. They all will start off the same & their talent and mental capacity will carry them forward or backward, not what someone writes about their stallion on this website.

Well stated, and I respect that you are not trying to personalize our area of disagreement. My sentiments are the same in regarding the stallions merit. I sincerely wish you well in your endeavors, I know we both appreciate the difficulty of getting a good. Enough said.