Fescue and pregnancy

[spex4me]

Okay I am once again wigging out. My mare will be at day 342 March 12. She has absolutely NO udder swelling. Had vet out going to start on domperidone to stimulate milk production. Suspects fescue is the culprit though mare has been on straight timothy since November 2010. I know hay can have fescue and I am just running with that for now , but being that this is first foal for me personally I'm chewing my fingernails off.
She has had one foal prior and that was 3 years ago so I am trying to get a response from previous owner on what the experience with that gestation was like. She had a filly.
I was excited she was seemingly in GREAT shape and prolonging the birth (wivestale/some stats indicate longer gestation for colts v. fillies) since I badly would be over the moon with a colt, but now I am just praying for anything as long as all goes well.
I was hoping for anyone if they had experience with this to share how it went for them. I am now scurrying around trying to line up a nurse mare and weighing the pros v. cons of doing a 24 watch of her(due to thickened placentas from fescue) myself or finding a reputable broodmare facility that also just in case has nurse mares. I am in Virginia and I would prefer to have this foal in Virginia but obviously circumstance may dictate something else..... Any suggestions here or pm would be super appreciated. I have been planning ENVIOUS BID for 3 years now, and I will be darned that after 11 months my humongous goofy mare and I will be deprived of him / her.....

[Shannon]

I am shocked you vet would agree to start inducing lactation at this stage. Many mares literally bag up overnight, and some don't really bag up at all until bab enters the picture. 342 days isn't really a panic date, I've known mares to go almost a full 365, and some even longer (which was freaky, but all ended just fine). I wouln't mess with giving her injections of anything just yet, you are likely to cause more harm than good at only a day or so over average gestation, such as losing your colostrum before she foals. See below:
Foaling Date. Gestation for mares can run from 305 to 395 days, with an average of 340 days. An easy rule of thumb to determine a mare’s foaling date is to subtract one month from the breeding date and add two days. However, there are factors that affect the time of foaling. Mares with first foals often have shorter gestations than mares who have previously delivered. Midlife mares tend to carry foals longer than younger mares. Time of year makes a difference, too. Mares foaling in January, February, or March usually have longer gestation length (by average 10 days) than mares foaling during April, May, and June. The foal triggers the onset of birth. When the unborn foal is full-term and ready, his hormones stimulate a change in the mare’s hormones, which trigger her cervix to dilate, uterus to contract, and milk to let down.

See the following link to an article regarding lactation induction:
http://www.horse-repro.com/ARTICLES/PDF ... done_3.pdf

[Laurierace]

Do you actually know that the placenta is thickened? I agree that you are pressing the panic button WAY too early unless there is more to the story than you are telling us ie placenta thickening etc.

[Jessi P]

Any update today?

[spex4me]

You know I used to not be a spazzoid until I got involved with Thoroughbreds....hmmmm lol.

Anyway previous owner said Biddy's other pregnancy with warmblood filly carried close or maybe a tad more than 350 days. Her bag was small, she never leaked or waxed but that the filly thrived as Biddy provided more than enough sustenance. She also didn't indicate foaling was really imminent as in the words of the former owner she looked no different on the day she foaled than she had in days prior. (great I always get the easy way out....not!)

Just got of the phone with vet and I told him past history. He seems more at ease but told me he was just concerned that based on breeding dates, she looked the part of a huge pregnant bowling ball, nothing else anatomically was suggesting she was as close as the breeding dates indicate. He also said he has used domperidone on his own mares for 3 to four days to make the bag and takes them off. He said he was not concerned at all to recommend that people do exactly that with a few days course of it to see if it triggers anything. He also seems content to let me wait it out a few more days too as far as using it. I just never got the vibe from her that there was anything amiss, I just happily assumed hey take all the time you need to make that perfect little GUY.
He was also basing the placenta/fescue theory on the fact that in our crappy area of VA grass is not so good and that there is more than normal complications that arise from fescue. But he is wondering about that since really we hay 70% of the time and the blades of grass that do see light never make it past 3 or 4 inches.
So to him the most important thing now is making sure baby's first meal is a completely nutritious one containing all the antibodies it should, so now it's wait and see and hopefully maybe the only thing we will have to do is substitute that first meal with plasma to insure all the levels are met.
As a side note if it weren't for a cataclysm of events that even led me down the path of "let's make the baby" I will and always prefer to buy the little sucker precooked and halter trained !!

[seahorse]

CALM DOWN....
don't mess with mother nature
sent you a bunch of text on your phone
as a non-vet but have personally foaled out over 900 babies
CALM DOWN !!!!!!

[Shannon]

I've worked with vets, and been present and involved in foaling almost 500 mares; my advise to you have a big glass of wine and chill
I have found most vets, in their incredible knowledge of what ifs and just in case, often overuse meds because they are close at hand, cheap and easy!
Based on your mares history, I personally wouldn't use the meds. You stand a good chance of losing your colostrum if she lets down too early. If you ARE going to go on your vets advise and use the meds, locate someone with a supply of colostrum in case you need it.

[LKR]

As was mentioned in previous posts, CALM DOWN!! You are definitely jumping the gun. Are you graining her and supplementing vitamins? You are off the timeline of fescue problems, it is a danger only if you feed it during the last 1/3 of gestation. You pulled her off in plenty of time. Timothy has virtually very little feed value, it is a filler. You should be graining and supplementing her. If you aren't that might be part of the problem of no bag. Also, some mares, as has been stated before, do not bag up until a week before delivery. Some bag up after delivery. Let nature take it's course, save the meds until she foals and shows she isn't going to produce milk. Sometimes, you can give a cc of oxytocin AFTER foaling to help her clean out and that will stimulate milk production. The stimulation the mare gets from the baby nuzzling the udder, bumping it etc. will get her to let her milk down too. I'd go with the bottle of wine suggestion.

[madelyn]

I think you might want to relax just a bit - I have a mare who routinely carries 370 days. Each mare is different.

On a lighter note, an Indiana breeder brought a mare to Rocking Trick last year whom I had bred before. I looked up her gestation for the earlier breeding and breezily predicted the foal for February 14th 2011 based on her cover and ovulation (she was boarded here for 21 days or so until we got her bred). That was the mare's "suggested" foaling date - not according to the mare gestation table, but according to that mare. The big stout straight filly was born on February 14, 2011. That mare carries 327 days. No more no less. On the night of Feb 13th, her bag was "there" but not bulging or waxing and the owner went to bed thinking "well sure not tonight." In the morning there was the big filly, bold as can be and all was well. So if another owner had a foal, say, 352 days out of that mare, it is much more likely that your foal will come out at the 352 day mark. The mares NEVER read those gestation tables, even if you post them in the paddocks and stalls.

[spex4me]

lol.... I am calm now....well as of the second post I was calm. Once I found out the other gestational information from her first foaling I felt the relaxation settle in.
And I do not have the expertise of previous foals to go off of hence why I come on here like a raving lunatic. Looking for the guiding hands to show me the way when I need it. Although I must say a few of your hands hold wine goblets, whats up with that ??? hahahahaha
You have to remember that when I was around pregnant mares, they were preggers one day and standing in the field the next with a healthy unassisted by human born foal. (Probably like 50 of the suckers in my lifetime through my uncle having QH's) He too advised stay out of it and let the mare do what she knows. Well it was easier then when it was one of his , not my own little concoction. And had I not lost my beloved 3 year old, Spex, due to a tragic training accident I can with 100% assurance say I would not even fathom breeding one.
Also let me throw in I in no way have that maternal instinct, I don't have kids that don't have less than 4 legs and can talk back to me. (trust me my dna they would )So the whole concept of whats what in pregnancy in general eludes me. God poor Biddy what have I done to her????
But this foal has been a joy for me as soon as I heard she was covered. I want it that badly, and it's one that I intend to keep no matter what ,even if that involves having to sell my body on the streets of Detroit at age 90 ...well I hope it doesn't get to that cuz that'll be a hard way to make a buck....but to digress, it's just a weird paramount feeling to feel like you played a hand in something so much bigger than you and the responsibility that comes with it for a long time. But like I said unless you have that experience before that first feeling of it is surreal.
She has been supplemented with more bags of equine neonatal supplements, alfalfa hay, and Omelene 300 than my pocketbook would care to acknowledge besides the Timothy. Vaccinations and dewormings all in textbook fashion. Figi water only.... ok I exaggerate that one. I guess for me it's like reading every book and watching every movie about Indy car racing and then given the keys and told to go drive.
So I sincerely thank you for your advice. I am very appreciative of your time when you answer it. Or seahorse text it in a million pages hahaha! So thank you much!!

[Roger]

Now I understand why you voted for the guy you did in the last big election.

[spex4me]

Why because I don't have any maternal Mama Grizzly instinct or I tend not to drink enough alcohol?? hehehehe just kidding Roger!! I look forward to the next election, god forbid I like the GOP candidate because our conversation will be too boring !

[clh]

Good luck spex - we await your arrival as much as you do And photos will be required!

[Lisann]

Best of luck with your foal-to-be, spex!

My quite educated hay guy (whose wife competes in Endurance) told me fescue is generally a problem only if it has gone to seed. Research I've done supports that, and also that fuscue typically causes problems when it's a significant source of nutrition in late gestation broodmares.

I understand the better safe than sorry approach; just hoping to allay your fears a bit!

[griff]

Fescue can also cause early gestation mares to abort.. with cows it's quanty, with horses it's digital; i.e., yes/no.

And each horse has it's individual response.

griff