Lookin to breed to race in keystone and was curious of some outside opinions. Im not really worried about price as everybody is dicounting. I wont be going to Dubai, smarty, or jump start but beyond that its a tough group to read. Who do you like/dislike and why?
Monba is on my list (a++ nick) but beyond his Bluegrass win?
Lite the fuse had some very good % crops but the last couple have sputtered out, getting old or losing quality mares to new comers?
Quarry interesting longshot, forty niner x female family that keeps popping horses like Blame
Toccet, Wisemans Ferry, Grand Reward, Sir Shackleton seem to be popular choices, I thought Grand Reward would be doing better to date with his breeding
breed to race in PA, who's throwin what?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Depends on your mare or mares -
Monba - Interesting horse, but take a good look at him in person because I get the impression you might want to be careful matching on conformation. I bid on a season to him in one of the auctions, but stopped bidding fairly early because the auction was before we'd had a chance to see him in person & I wasn't married to the idea of breeding to him.
Lite The Fuse - I don't think he is getting the quality of mares he has gotten in the past & his sales figures were hit-or-miss in the past & got worse when the economy slid. He is being overlooked by breeders who want the option of selling or racing. We bred to him & got a very nice filly. I still think with the right mare, he's a very good choice.
Quarry - You never see Quarry on one of these threads. But he gets bred to a number of mares every year & every year, he gets some who go to the track & win. He's not doing it on the quality of the mares or the way they match him, so he must be doing something right.
We saw Toccet, Wiseman's Ferry & Sir Shackleton at Dana Point's open house last year (where I got to meet Bohemia in person). I was especially fond of Wiseman's Ferry (and expect to be breeding to him this year) but liked the other two as well. I'm not a Storm Cat fan, and Wiseman's Ferry will be the first exception to our only half-joking "no Storm Cats!" rule.
Good luck, whoever the mare & whatever your choice.
Monba - Interesting horse, but take a good look at him in person because I get the impression you might want to be careful matching on conformation. I bid on a season to him in one of the auctions, but stopped bidding fairly early because the auction was before we'd had a chance to see him in person & I wasn't married to the idea of breeding to him.
Lite The Fuse - I don't think he is getting the quality of mares he has gotten in the past & his sales figures were hit-or-miss in the past & got worse when the economy slid. He is being overlooked by breeders who want the option of selling or racing. We bred to him & got a very nice filly. I still think with the right mare, he's a very good choice.
Quarry - You never see Quarry on one of these threads. But he gets bred to a number of mares every year & every year, he gets some who go to the track & win. He's not doing it on the quality of the mares or the way they match him, so he must be doing something right.
We saw Toccet, Wiseman's Ferry & Sir Shackleton at Dana Point's open house last year (where I got to meet Bohemia in person). I was especially fond of Wiseman's Ferry (and expect to be breeding to him this year) but liked the other two as well. I'm not a Storm Cat fan, and Wiseman's Ferry will be the first exception to our only half-joking "no Storm Cats!" rule.
Good luck, whoever the mare & whatever your choice.
Just remember the stallion is only half of the equation & your mare is the rest of it.
ANY of these horses could get you a good runner with the right mare - and a pasture pet with the wrong one.
Why don't you start a thread on the Mating Advice forum with the mare's name & your short (or long) list of potential sires & whatever else you'd like to add. You will probably get a lot of information there.
ANY of these horses could get you a good runner with the right mare - and a pasture pet with the wrong one.
Why don't you start a thread on the Mating Advice forum with the mare's name & your short (or long) list of potential sires & whatever else you'd like to add. You will probably get a lot of information there.
I have a Not For Love colt in training in SC that is:
MDSIRED and eligible for the Maryland Millions
PABRED and eligible for all PABRED perks
Delaware Certified and eligible for Deleware Certified perks
Nominated for the $75k Philly PARK November race restricted to horses trained in SC.
He's also 3S X 3D to Numbered Account
Should start running in the August/September time frame
NFL is $15k this year.
griff
MDSIRED and eligible for the Maryland Millions
PABRED and eligible for all PABRED perks
Delaware Certified and eligible for Deleware Certified perks
Nominated for the $75k Philly PARK November race restricted to horses trained in SC.
He's also 3S X 3D to Numbered Account
Should start running in the August/September time frame
NFL is $15k this year.
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
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thx for the input. When you go to Northview's site he is missing from the PA choices? Not sure if its a mistake or if there is an immenant announcment forthwrit. He is another PA oldie that seems to have suffered when the program when into place. Think he has only one SW since 2005.
Grif- You must have read up on your state programs and kept your trailer busy, smart way to do it for sure. My problem is in order to get the current foal PA certified I have to atleast try to breed back to PA sire and stay 90 days. She was a late cover so it might not work out and I have a good backup option as I have family with a farm 2mi away in DE.
Im starting to think there may be better value options in KY and I could just come back to DE to foal and race.
Grif- You must have read up on your state programs and kept your trailer busy, smart way to do it for sure. My problem is in order to get the current foal PA certified I have to atleast try to breed back to PA sire and stay 90 days. She was a late cover so it might not work out and I have a good backup option as I have family with a farm 2mi away in DE.
Im starting to think there may be better value options in KY and I could just come back to DE to foal and race.
I have not read up on this for a while but I think Delaware Certified gets a 50% owner's bonus and no Breeders Bonus..
The way I remember the PABRED program is 35% bons to the breeder and 40% bonus to the owner.. That's a 75% bonus to the bereeder/owner that racesa PABRED in PA..
there are some very good stallions in PA.. If you don't mind what is your mares name?/
griff
The way I remember the PABRED program is 35% bons to the breeder and 40% bonus to the owner.. That's a 75% bonus to the bereeder/owner that racesa PABRED in PA..
there are some very good stallions in PA.. If you don't mind what is your mares name?/
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
thanks griff, It might sound crazy but I would almost rather send her to Quarry for nothing then spend 2-4k in this market. If I could get Toccet for $1500 maybe $2k I might pull the trigger but Im having a hard time justifing most of the others. I guess Partners Hero is acceptable @ 2k or below.
Its a hard one to call because its going to be a late cover and its hard to tell how much a PA cert. will improve the current foals price at auction. The positives are that Im from the region and can race the current foal under the PA program if I get stuck with it. The second foal I plan on taking partners and racing so Toccet is an easier sell to people but it will be a late cover and we all know foals are getting written off for far less than that these days. Maybe ill just bring um up to DE in a few months
Its a hard one to call because its going to be a late cover and its hard to tell how much a PA cert. will improve the current foals price at auction. The positives are that Im from the region and can race the current foal under the PA program if I get stuck with it. The second foal I plan on taking partners and racing so Toccet is an easier sell to people but it will be a late cover and we all know foals are getting written off for far less than that these days. Maybe ill just bring um up to DE in a few months
another suggestion:
go to page 160 through 164 of the March edition of Mid-Atlantic Thoroughbred and look at the Avg/Starter for Lifetime runners and you will find numbers as good as the stallions in KY..
Cat Thief has a 466,049 Ave/Starter Lifetime with 78.8% i winners from stat rters
E Dubai, a Mr prospector son, has a lifetine Ave/Starter of $60,182 with 74.8% winners from starters.
Suggest you use these states f to find a stallion that you think will nick with your mare.
griff
go to page 160 through 164 of the March edition of Mid-Atlantic Thoroughbred and look at the Avg/Starter for Lifetime runners and you will find numbers as good as the stallions in KY..
Cat Thief has a 466,049 Ave/Starter Lifetime with 78.8% i winners from stat rters
E Dubai, a Mr prospector son, has a lifetine Ave/Starter of $60,182 with 74.8% winners from starters.
Suggest you use these states f to find a stallion that you think will nick with your mare.
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
OK, you've changed the question entirely.
You originally asked for advice to breed-to-race in PA:
Now you say:
It may not sound like they are 2 different questions to you, but breeding a horse that is likely to race & win & one that is likely to sell at a profit are really 2 different questions, even though most people believe they should not be.
I wish you the best, but there has been more than 1 poster on this board who joyfully announced an intention to breed, who also wanted to save money on the stud fee, foaling state, etc. Foals from inexpensive regional sires do not bring profit at a sale. So IF selling the foal is a possibility, rather than offering a list of local stallions you like, you need to take a more businesslike approach because the stud fee & board to make the foal a PA-bred are the least of your expenses & will have the most effect (other than the quality of the mare herself) on whether you can sell the foal at all, much less for a profit.
Do your homework.
Decide whether you plan to sell as a weanling, yearling or 2 y.o. & which sale you expect to attend. Look at the most recent results for your sale(s) of choice. See which stallions' offspring are selling there. Choose whichever selling stallion best matches your mare & your pocketbook - and pray that his popularity does not slip between now & the time YOUR foal goes to market.
Best of luck. If you follow this advice, you will probably breed to a KY sire & foal out in PA.
You originally asked for advice to breed-to-race in PA:
hah480 wrote:Lookin to breed to race in keystone and was curious of some outside opinions.
Now you say:
hah480 wrote:Its a hard one to call because its going to be a late cover and its hard to tell how much a PA cert. will improve the current foals price at auction.
It may not sound like they are 2 different questions to you, but breeding a horse that is likely to race & win & one that is likely to sell at a profit are really 2 different questions, even though most people believe they should not be.
I wish you the best, but there has been more than 1 poster on this board who joyfully announced an intention to breed, who also wanted to save money on the stud fee, foaling state, etc. Foals from inexpensive regional sires do not bring profit at a sale. So IF selling the foal is a possibility, rather than offering a list of local stallions you like, you need to take a more businesslike approach because the stud fee & board to make the foal a PA-bred are the least of your expenses & will have the most effect (other than the quality of the mare herself) on whether you can sell the foal at all, much less for a profit.
Do your homework.
Decide whether you plan to sell as a weanling, yearling or 2 y.o. & which sale you expect to attend. Look at the most recent results for your sale(s) of choice. See which stallions' offspring are selling there. Choose whichever selling stallion best matches your mare & your pocketbook - and pray that his popularity does not slip between now & the time YOUR foal goes to market.
Best of luck. If you follow this advice, you will probably breed to a KY sire & foal out in PA.
KB im sorry if I sounded confusing. My mare is in foal now
I always intended on racing the second foal
Unfortunetly in my case you have to breed back to a PA sire to register , an out of state sire foal, that is foaled in PA but the mare hasnt been in PA since OCT of the year previous to foaling year
When I started the thread it was a foregone conclusion" in my mind" that I wanted to come to PA ( hence why I didnt get into the details about the current foal, didnt want to sidetrack people with that or the mares pedigree, just wanted some focus on what PA sires people liked and why) but the more I looked at what PA has to offer my foregone conclusion became a " is it really worth it"
at any rate the thread has run its course and has gotten off topic. Thanks to all, I appreciate the time to help me from making a bad decision
Its a hard one to call because its going to be a late cover and its hard to tell how much a PA cert. will improve the current foals price at auction. The positives are that Im from the region and can race the current foal under the PA program if I get stuck with it.
I always intended on racing the second foal
The second foal I plan on taking partners and racing so Toccet is an easier sell to people but it will be a late cover and we all know foals are getting written off for far less than that these days
Unfortunetly in my case you have to breed back to a PA sire to register , an out of state sire foal, that is foaled in PA but the mare hasnt been in PA since OCT of the year previous to foaling year
When I started the thread it was a foregone conclusion" in my mind" that I wanted to come to PA ( hence why I didnt get into the details about the current foal, didnt want to sidetrack people with that or the mares pedigree, just wanted some focus on what PA sires people liked and why) but the more I looked at what PA has to offer my foregone conclusion became a " is it really worth it"
at any rate the thread has run its course and has gotten off topic. Thanks to all, I appreciate the time to help me from making a bad decisionFYI, they just reduced the Delaware Certified bonuses for this year to 40 percent:
http://www.delawarepark.com/race_horsemen.php
http://www.delawarepark.com/race_horsemen.php
You are right, I checked on Northview's web site and Partner's Hero has been removed. Did some asking around and found out he has been sold - but where he's headed I haven't found out yet. Too bad ... he was one Pa. stallion that always attracted decent-sized books of mares and was a good breed-to-race stallion for a very reasonable stud fee.