Leroidesanimaux

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Wed May 25, 2011 5:25 pm

This is really killing AK's value as a stud because Leroy can't get beyond the Stonewall name. AK can't stand for much if his sire is standing for 10- $12,500.. how much can you really ask when you can get to the sire very inexpensively?

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:24 pm

Crystal wrote:This is really killing AK's value as a stud because Leroy can't get beyond the Stonewall name. AK can't stand for much if his sire is standing for 10- $12,500.. how much can you really ask when you can get to the sire very inexpensively?

and the sire is a better race horse than the son to boot

would not shock me at all if he came back as a 4YO

but, leroi's pecdigree was never a problem he has a fabolus pedigree, it was that he was a turf horse. now that he can get a dirt horse, i would expect them to (at least try) to get more money.

i think leroi should be a solid 20k stallion.

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Thu May 26, 2011 3:48 pm

I think he is fine where he is.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Sat May 28, 2011 6:06 am

bdw0617 wrote:
Crystal wrote:but, leroi's pecdigree was never a problem he has a fabolus pedigree, it was that he was a turf horse. now that he can get a dirt horse, i would expect them to (at least try) to get more money.

Well, he's stood for a few years now, so people can see what has worked with him and what hasn't.

I think a more pressing thing are the bloodlines with which he needs to get a good horse. Essentially, either you need a european/argentinian pedigree (Animal Kingdom, Always a Princess, Marfach, Sarahs Secret), old Tartan Farms blood, especially Dr. Fager and Unbridled (Mahindar, Fortunia, Considerate), or a pedigree of US-bred horses that ended up having better success at stud in south america or europe (Crimson Knight). Outside of the Tartan Farms breeding, that limits the mare pool quite a lot. In Argentina or France he'd have all kinds of potential....here it's more of a niche market.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat May 28, 2011 7:32 am

Crystal wrote:..... AK can't stand for much if his sire is standing for 10- $12,500.. how much can you really ask when you can get to the sire very inexpensively?

Not true. Birdstone got $10K for a number of years while standing quite near his sire, Grindstone, at $3500.

You also might need to add in the Florida factor. Leroidesanimaux is in Florida, which limits his fee. I could see Animal Kingdom launching out in KY at a $25K tag or so..

Fireslam · Postby **Fireslam** » Sat May 28, 2011 10:31 am

Northern Afleet is $10,000, with Afleet Alex at $25,000.

Concerto is $2500, Bellamy Road $10,000.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:18 pm

Fireslam wrote:Northern Afleet is $10,000, with Afleet Alex at $25,000.

Concerto is $2500, Bellamy Road $10,000.

let's not let crystal's point be lost in a gotcha politicesque moment, i see what she is trying to say

Afeet Alex, Bellamy Road, birdstone.. all of them were , IMHO clearly better than their sires.

You can say the same for shakleford most likelyi. he will stand for more than frorestry as long as they still aren't trying to stand him for 100k that is

But, AK can't hold a candle to Leori in his prime. at least at this point so far. Leroi was a seriously, serious, seriously good race horse. almost candy ride esque good. not quite but close.

why would you bred to a horse that is not AS talented for more money?

freshman · Postby **freshman** » Sat May 28, 2011 9:35 pm

Leroidesanimaux needs to stay where he is next year, in FL at the same price point. And Animal Kingdom needs to stay where he is next year, on the track and winning big races.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat May 28, 2011 9:54 pm

I think it will be very benefital for leroidesanimaux to go to kentucky to gain access to a wider range of mares. I think it is very very important for turfy sires to be based in as wide a mare population as possible.

ElPrado · Postby **ElPrado** » Sat May 28, 2011 11:59 pm

It's a moot point. He can't leave Florida on N hemisphere season until at least through 2013, by the contract the farm has now. It doesn't do any good to say you think he wants to be in Ky.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sun May 29, 2011 5:35 am

Leroi WAS in KY when he sired Animal Kingdom.

ElPrado · Postby **ElPrado** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:11 am

Yep, but he was sent to Florida so that the banks wouldn't be able to acquire him. He has to stay in Florida due to a contract connected with that transfer.

LB · Postby LB » Sun May 29, 2011 6:32 am

bdw0617 wrote:But, AK can't hold a candle to Leori in his prime. at least at this point so far. Leroi was a seriously, serious, seriously good race horse. almost candy ride esque good. not quite but close.

why would you bred to a horse that is not AS talented for more money?

It's a little early to be saying that Animal Kingdom isn't as talented as his sire. When he was the same age as AK, Leroy had won one race and earned 7k. Who knows, AK may turn out to be a one hit wonder--or like his sire, he might get better and better with age. Nevertheless it hardly seems fair to compare the race record of a horse early in his 3yo year with that of one who was a star at 4 and 5.

As for why breeders might prefer AK over Leroy, there are many many people in Kentucky who simply will not deal with Stonewall. The Haisfelds left a trail of financial wreckage behind them when they fled the state and even those who weren't left holding unpaid bills find themselves leery of that operation. Depending on where AK stands at stud, it's highly likely that it will be a farm where breeders would prefer to do business.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sun May 29, 2011 11:42 am

LB wrote:
bdw0617 wrote:But, AK can't hold a candle to Leori in his prime. at least at this point so far. Leroi was a seriously, serious, seriously good race horse. almost candy ride esque good. not quite but close.

why would you bred to a horse that is not AS talented for more money?

It's a little early to be saying that Animal Kingdom isn't as talented as his sire. When he was the same age as AK, Leroy had won one race and earned 7k. Who knows, AK may turn out to be a one hit wonder--or like his sire, he might get better and better with age. Nevertheless it hardly seems fair to compare the race record of a horse early in his 3yo year with that of one who was a star at 4 and 5.

As for why breeders might prefer AK over Leroy, there are many many people in Kentucky who simply will not deal with Stonewall. The Haisfelds left a trail of financial wreckage behind them when they fled the state and even those who weren't left holding unpaid bills find themselves leery of that operation. Depending on where AK stands at stud, it's highly likely that it will be a farm where breeders would prefer to do business.

hence why i said at least at this point so far.

Point taken about stonewall. But as someone pointed out, wouldn't that just damn AK more as far as stud fee?

Basically right now it seems that stonewall is toxic to any possible stallion prospect their horses produce until they get out. You still might be more keen to bred to AK but that does not necessarily mean you would want to pay more money to do so.

I hope AK turns out to be better, that would make him a damn good race horse. But at this point he isn't

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Sun May 29, 2011 12:42 pm

It's too early to determine in Leroi is going to be hit or miss. People like to see a lot of progeny become stake winners/champions before they sing the praise of a stallion.. Mr. P was the sire of how many graded stake winners? He had 1 KY derby winner.. Fu Peg. But if the option is there to go to a father or son (saying when AK goes to stud), I personally would rather go to the father in this case. IN THIS CASE (AK or Leroi).