Hard Spun

[griff]

I guess my mistake is I thought colts out sold fillies and mares at all major sales.

griff

[kimberley mine]

I guess my mistake is I thought colts out sold fillies and mares at all major sales.

griff

You're not wrong with that observation, griff. What you are doing is muddling the yearling market with the stallion prospect market.

A top-notch stallion prospect, who has raced and won at high levels, is going to be syndicated for big bucks. His initial purchase price may or may not have an impact on the syndication value. Compare this article about Curlin, whose yearling purchase price had almost nothing to do with his syndication value, with this Pulpit son, whose Keeneland sales price is the nicest thing they can say about him.

With a few exceptions, truly top-class stallion prospects do not sell at public auction. They are either syndicated privately or don't sell at all (e.g. Kitten's Joy). Middle-market prospects might go through the sales, such as Naughty New Yorker or Dancing Forever, but in those breeding stock sales, the mares outsell the stallions by a significant margin.

[LB]

Goldophin's colt, KUNOOZ, just became Hard Spun's 6th winner at Newmarket.

[tinners way]

LB, great explanation of potential of the well bred mare or stallion. If you don't have a whole field of mares, no matter how well bred the prospect, it is very difficult to convince owners of well bred mares to take any risk at all, further eliminating the potential of the unproven stallion. Another example of females having the upper hand.

[Bast]

A good mare can have only one foal a year.

A great stallion can have hundreds. Why take the chance of wasting a year of a mare's productive life by breeding her to a stallion with no more than a pedigree? The history of the TB is full of full brothers with vastly different careers as stallions--check out Bold Ruler's brothers.

This is why there is no market for the well bred racing failure except for the few who manage to become decent sires.

[Bast]

A good mare can have only one foal a year.

A great stallion can have hundreds. Why take the chance of wasting a year of a mare's productive life by breeding her to a stallion with no more than a pedigree? The history of the TB is full of full brothers with vastly different careers as stallions--check out Bold Ruler's brothers.

This is why there is no market for the well bred racing failure except for the few who manage to become decent sires.

[griff]

Where can I find this market for well bred mares w/o a race record?,

or for that matter where is the market for well berd mares with a race record?

griff

[Zahrah]

I'm starting to wonder if your idea of what constitutes a "well-bred mare" is different than mine, because your argument is becoming harder and harder to follow.

Needless to say you take a mare to the big sales and she's by the right horse and has the right page and physical and there's going to be more than one buyer who wants her. And I say that from experience... I was the underbidder on almost a dozen mares last November.

We ended up walking away with two... one was a 47k Touch Gold mare who, when the catalog first came out, we thought she'd be fit into the 20k and under range. How wrong we were.

[griff]

I think you are correct..For one, i believe the tail female is more important than the stallion.. Need both but w/o a very good bottom I don't think any horse can be considered well bred..

I realize there are a lot very accomplished horses o/o mares that did nothing, or very poorly, on the track, but were probably considered well bred, especially in hind sight.; i.e., Secretariat, Seattle slew etc.

Still well bred to me means their momma won some graded stakes races or at least some stakes races.

griff

[griff]

Example

Any horse o/o Toussaud, Delicate Vine, etc by any stallion the owners think is good enough is a well bred horse

Not the other way around

griff