STOP LOUIS' INBREEDING THREAD

DDT · Postby **DDT** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:51 pm

dray33

As a moderator you should be more tuned in than you are, Louis does not post this information as a theory, he posts his trash as facts, and that is the only reason I respond to it, to make sure people who read it as fact are informed otherwise. I believe the thread should at the very least be moved. As a public forum, Louis, or anyone for that matter can post their personal beliefs as opinions, however, to continue to post bogus information as fact should be considered as against the rules and moderators should be on top of the situation.

DDT

ElPrado · Postby **ElPrado** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:51 pm

It isn't just his baloney about breeding, he is claiming practical blood brotherhood with trainers who have no idea who he is. Baffert doesn't know him. He claims Baffert as a close friend. He claims he was best friends with Whittingham. He usually picks only dead people so that we can't check up on him. I did check with Baffert, Baffert has no idea who he is and LOL all over the place. Pegram doesn't know him either. Louis claimed to know him at one point.
It's his outright lies that bother me the most.

Bast · Postby **Bast** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:08 pm

DDT wrote:dray33

As a moderator you should be more tuned in than you are, Louis does not post this information as a theory, he posts his trash as facts, and that is the only reason I respond to it, to make sure people who read it as fact are informed otherwise. I believe the thread should at the very least be moved. As a public forum, Louis, or anyone for that matter can post their personal beliefs as opinions, however, to continue to post bogus information as fact should be considered as against the rules and moderators should be on top of the situation.

DDT

Louis also states that he is uniquely qualified to make his claims because he is a "pedigree researcher", and believes that there are next to no other people on earth qualified as he is to do this "work".

I don't think it has occurred to him that a forum at a site named pedigreequery.com might attract people greater than usual interest in pedigrees... :roll:

...and some with considerable knowledge (the links posted in this thread have made it worthwhile for me).

I consider myself an amateur, and that's after 45+ years of digging through TB pedigrees and considerable study of racing Arabian pedigrees (I compiled the published records of Arabs raced between 1959-1983, and included 3-cross pedigrees of all winners). I also studied genetics formally, and had a college course in genetics.

I'm an amateur, but I know hogwash when Louis blathers it.

I think the thread should be moved.

zinn21 · Postby **zinn21** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:14 pm

What's wrong with not clicking on his thread? If you think his posts are garbage and you are so compelled to read them, it's on you. Louis has the right to voice his opinion and if you don't like it don't read it. It's worked for me for years.

Or get into analysis and figure out your addiction to "Inbreeding and Breakdowns" or whatever the thread's called..

Bast · Postby **Bast** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:20 pm

zinn21 wrote:What's wrong with not clicking on his thread? If you think his posts are garbage and you are so compelled to read them, it's on you. Louis has the right to voice his opinion and if you don't like it don't read it. It's worked for me for years.

I think it's reasonable to post that 4-line disclaimer without further comment to any additional claims Louis makes, and elaborate no more beyond that. There are people who will NOT dig backwards, and who will characterize Louis as an heroic truth seeker beset with cruel, nasty people who want to breed unsound horses and run them into the ground for $$$. Leaving behind a few breadcrumbs of a trail for anyone with some smarts or curiosity is enough.

pfrsue · Postby **pfrsue** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:27 pm

1. You will be held accountable for what you post.

So far, Louis has not been held accountable by the moderators at all for listing the names of owners, breeders and trainers of horses who broke down or had limited starts, even though it's been established that in many cases he has no idea how or why those horses stopped racing. His statements are arguably libelous and defamatory. And, if it's true that he's claiming close friendships with people who are active in the industry and don't know who he is...well, that's inappropriate as well, but also deeply worrying. More on that later.

2. Please place your threads in the correct forum and try to keep all posts on topic to that particular thread.

The Inbreeding and Breakdown thread, even by admission of moderators on this forum, does not belong in the Racing section. The thread was there before the rules were posted, but surely it's not that hard to move.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.

There's plenty of blame to go around in that particular thread, and certainly not just on Louis, but it is a problem. I've seen threads locked on this forum for less vitriol than has been seen there.

4. Do not post copyrighted photographs or articles unless you have legal right to do so.

Louis has repeatedly posted excerpts from books and articles without citing his sources or even admitting that the source is anyone but himself. The writing style itself tells the tale, and several other members have called him out for this, especially those who recognize the actual source material, but he never responds.

I personally sort of like Louis. I think he's probably a nice man. But, the topic has been flogged to death and his theory (which he presents as fact) has been completely dis-proven multiple times by multiple posters who do have the backgrounds and have done the research that Louis does not have and has not provided. There have been a great many academic articles cited to illustrate that when science and genetics are brought into it, there's overwhelming evidence to show that Louis is very much mistaken in his beliefs. The thread is frankly ridiculous. It always has been. In fact, it's only true value is in the counter-argument articles that Shammy and others have shared.

BUT, having said all that, I'd be remiss if I didn't express some concern about Louis' mental well being if the thread was summarily shut down or deleted. As adamantly as I disagree with his theories, I recognize that he's put in hundreds and thousands of hours on perpetuating his hypothesis and I really don't know what the repercussions would be to him personally if his thread was taken away. That would be the only reason I could fathom for allowing it to remain. (Although I still think it's dangerous legal waters to allow the posts that assign the blame for breakdowns to specifically named people.)

Okay, I've said my peace, for the two cents or less it's worth.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:31 pm

If i had real "access" DDT, i would have moved the thread already. All i can do is suggest to Rog that the thread be moved. And I agree. It needs to be in Pedigree Analysis, NOT Racing.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm

Personally, I think it belongs under "Off the Wall" :lol:

Pan Zareta · Postby **Pan Zareta** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:18 pm

fwiw - freedom to express one's opinion does not encompass freedom to say something which can't be proven true and causes material harm to someone else. All it could take is one irate owner of a gratuitously defamed TB filing suit to have the entire forum taken offline. It's happened before to similar forums. The suit might have little or no real merit, but how likely is it that the server owner would let it go far enough to find that out?

Please, move the Inbreeding & Breakdowns thread somewhere - anywhere- that only registered members have access to it, and promply remove the occasional post that ventures into slander territory.

Bast · Postby **Bast** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:05 am

madelyn wrote:Personally, I think it belongs under "Off the Wall"

I think this should be seriously considered, based upon some of the content.

Postby **Roguelet** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:49 am

I will freely admit to not having read most of the thread personally, but based upon what I have read, I have a few things to say about this:

The thread began quite a long time before we separated the forums into the current categories, so there was no act of posting in an inappropriate area. I have now moved it to Pedigree Analysis.

I have no issue with identification of the owners, trainers, and breeders of any particular horse because that is all public information.

MANY forum members call themselves researchers, breeders, trainers, bloodstock agents, or experts in one or several horse-related fields. Not a single one is required to give credentials, and those who do give credentials are not required to provide verification of those credentials. Anyone who chooses to believe or disbelieve those credentials, or to base their breeding program on one thing, be it one "expert" or one theory or one forum thread that is in large part anonymous is completely free to do so.

I have had requests for the deletion of MANY threads over the years, yet I have not ever censored someone's thoughts as long as they express them in a relatively polite manner. Despite the constant attacks that are made upon Louis, he continues to post in a polite and respectful manner. For that I really admire Louis, and many posters on this forum could learn from him in that regard.

Opinions are usually expressed as that person's version of fact on this forum and in real life, based on that person's belief that their experience or what someone has told them gives them the knowledge necessary to be correct. You may always disagree, even strongly, but that does not ever give you the right to belittle that person or their opinion.

The bottom line is this... the Internet is a place where opinions are shared. It is up to each personal reader to determine what they do and do not believe and what they do and do not agree with. Everyone should feel free to express their opinions in Louis' thread or any other, but only in an appropriate manner, which means to discuss the opinions and ideas in the thread... NOT the poster's personal life, perceived issues, or mental condition.

I am going to ask the moderators to weigh in on this privately in the moderator section. Meanwhile, if you can not comment on the opinions shared within the thread or the posters sharing them without including a personal attack or nasty comment of some sort, I am going to ask that you refrain from reading the thread at all.