Racehorse Injuries

[Bast]

If I may contribute my info, Bast, what form would you like it in?

Hold that thought.

We're still discussing what should ideally be collected.

[Monsun]

If I may contribute my info, Bast, what form would you like it in?

Hold that thought.

We're still discussing what should ideally be collected.

Name, date, track, surface (or in the case of AQU also which track), what happened (pulled up, broke down, DNF, vanned, etc), outcome (if not immediate, roughly how much later), source of info. Medication would be nice but you won't be able to find out. Nor will you always be able to find out just what the injury was (example, Anak Nakal which some people claimed looked like soft tissue injury, but according to an unconfirmed report may have been put down at some point after leaving the track, no details available). Trainer & jockey & sire & dam/dam sire, birth month, total number of races, age at first race, time since previous race, valuye of race is all something that might provide interesting info but if necessary can be looked up later. Oh, and I would add a comments area for things like "was pulled up in previous race".

[Sailor Kenshin]

Stumbled across a very informal 'injury report' when I heard Cornelio Velasquez was off his mounts:

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/people/velasquez-stable-after-spill-in-saturday-nightcap-at-aqueduct

[Shammy Davis]

Here's an interesting 2008 article. Check out the information about CA racing.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/sports/143 ... ince_2003/

[Shammy Davis]

Five part series by the Horse Fund on dirt vs synthetic. Begins with

http://www.horsefund.org/horse-racing-g ... -part1.php

[Shammy Davis]

http://www.trainermagazine.com/europe/n ... irt-tracks

[Shammy Davis]

Here's another article that is somewhat dated and prior to SA returning to a dirt surface.

While separate tracks and states cannot be segmented from the national study, California does keep its own records. Accord to Dr. Rick Arthur, Equine Medical Director of the California Horse Racing Board, that state has seen a 40 percent reduction in racing fatalities on its new artificial surfaces when compared to statistics for the dirt surfaces in that state going back to 2004. (Plans are, however, for Santa Anita to return to a dirt surface next year.)

http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2010/03/ra ... ue-to.html

[Bast]

Cat's Enough broke down in the 2nd race at Santa Anita today.

An update on what happened to him would be appreciated.

[Monsun]

Cat's Enough broke down in the 2nd race at Santa Anita today.

An update on what happened to him would be appreciated.

Bad news: He was euthanized. See the bottom part of the article:
http://www.drf.com/news/santa-anita-san-felipe-pivotal-test-midnight-transfer

[Bast]

The Jockey Club is posting a public database for several tracks:

http://jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp?section=2

Only fatalities are included.

[Bast]

After reflection, I propose the following format be used for collecting information on horses breaking down, vanned off, or euthanized on North American racetracks. Injuries occurring during training will be listed also, when available. Not all tracks in North America are equally hazardous. The goal is to express the problem of injuries and breakdowns in terms of numbers instead of anecdotal observations.

There is just so much time to go into this project; this information would seem the most essential and useful:

Name of the horse
Sex
Year Foaled
Lifetime race record
Date of incident
Racetrack
Race number
Exact track
Surface
Condition
Distance
< 6 furlongs
6-7 ½ furlongs
8 f and beyond
Trainer
Incident
Outcome for horse
Source of outcome information
Chart referenced (link to Equibase information)
Entry by~initials of the person entering this line of information

Horse name.
I believe it is important that we not lose focus on the horse. These are individual feeling, typically trusting creatures. We owe them some remembrance.

Trainer.
This is a matter of public record. Trainers may not like to see their names in such a listing, but truth is what it is. There is no intention of attacking the reputation of any individual trainer.

Outcome for horse.
In the case of horses euthanized on the track, the source is the race chart. Sometimes there will be a formal notice after the horse has been vanned off; sometimes word of mouth is the only way things are known. The source will be noted wherever possible, to elevate the data above the level of gossip.

Pedigrees.
Anyone who wants to use these data as a source for pedigree study is welcome to do so, but I don’t want to get into pedigrees. Please take fixations of the sort found in the Phalaris, Stallion of Doom thread to that undying thread.

Vanning off.
Horses are vanned off for a variety of reasons. I’m including ALL individuals vanned off, thinking that a vague problem may be the first sign of injury. Perhaps this is overzealous, but I would prefer to be cautious and complete.

I’ve started working on Aqueduct for 2012. Collaborators welcomed!

[Sysonby]

Over the years, I've seen this exercise periodically on a lot of different websites devoted to racing and I have to admit that I have never understood the purpose. Typically the contributors scour charts for DNFs. But those folks don't know why the horse got eased or failed to finish except in the most extreme cases that are confirmed by the media. I know of horses personally--ie I know the horse, the trainer and the connections-- that have gone ass over tea kettles during a race and undoubtedly ended up on these lists who lived to race again.

To be honest, I've tended to chalk it up to morbid fascination. If you want to be scientific about, this stuff does get tracked by the powers that be especially in California. Just look at the website I gave you and you have everything you want to know--confirmed and official to be analyzed to your hearts content. Otherwise there is a risk of a lot of subjectivity and downright wrong information that is probably going to creep into this "study". That of course would tend to make conclusions meaningless.

[Shammy Davis]

Sysonby posted:

Over the years, I've seen this exercise periodically on a lot of different websites devoted to racing and I have to admit that I have never understood the purpose. Typically the contributors scour charts for DNFs. But those folks don't know why the horse got eased or failed to finish except in the most extreme cases that are confirmed by the media. I know of horses personally--ie I know the horse, the trainer and the connections-- that have gone ass over tea kettles during a race and undoubtedly ended up on these lists who lived to race again.

To be honest, I've tended to chalk it up to morbid fascination. If you want to be scientific about, this stuff does get tracked by the powers that be especially in California. Just look at the website I gave you and you have everything you want to know--confirmed and official to be analyzed to your hearts content. Otherwise there is a risk of a lot of subjectivity and downright wrong information that is probably going to creep into this "study". That of course would tend to make conclusions meaningless.

You are assuming that the racing industry will "police" itself and that industry leaders are truly intent on changing things for the better. I do agree with you that threads like this give less than reliable or conclusive results, but the positive side to the effort is that it gets people thinking and talking about issues related to horse welfare. Some of us think that is important. The issue of track surfaces, unrelated in the anatomical sense to the pathology of breakdowns or injury, at our aging tracks is something worth talking about. It is likely that the rate of breakdowns per 1000 starts is not much different than in previous years, but unlike many sports, horseracing continues to be unthrifty in world professional and amatuer sports market that is excelling beyond what many thought unattainable 40 years ago.

If we were to assume your position on this and other issues we'd have little to talk about. Is the thread on "size of the TB" a significant issue? Probably not but its thoughtful. "What about the ear size and shape as it relates to X-factor? Showed up in a book, didn't it. Got people talking.

Morbid fascination is an interesting take on this subject. The members of this board have suffered to the point of exhaustion the anecdotal flawed evidence provided by the author of the Inbreeding thread for 6 years. We've allowed the author carte blanche access to our minds with practically no opposition with the exception of few "addicts." That is what I call "morbid fascinaton."

Best wishes.

[Bast]

Over the years, I've seen this exercise periodically on a lot of different websites devoted to racing and I have to admit that I have never understood the purpose. Typically the contributors scour charts for DNFs. But those folks don't know why the horse got eased or failed to finish except in the most extreme cases that are confirmed by the media. I know of horses personally--ie I know the horse, the trainer and the connections-- that have gone ass over tea kettles during a race and undoubtedly ended up on these lists who lived to race again.

To be honest, I've tended to chalk it up to morbid fascination. If you want to be scientific about, this stuff does get tracked by the powers that be especially in California. Just look at the website I gave you and you have everything you want to know--confirmed and official to be analyzed to your hearts content. Otherwise there is a risk of a lot of subjectivity and downright wrong information that is probably going to creep into this "study". That of course would tend to make conclusions meaningless.

No, you don't know the outcomes and vanning off can be done for a host of reasons. But vanning off is a trend; it is an indicator of the relative safety of a track. During Turfway's current meeting, after 30+ days of racing, only 3 horses have been vanned off. Santa Anita and Aqueduct cannot begin to match that frequency.

[DDT]

Bast

I think we should attempt to have some kind of format to use, and assign tracks to people to eliminate double work. I know van offs will be difficult, however the information will be as reliable as it can be. This is no small task we are attempting to take on and organization should be paramount prior to collecting data. Here is a suggested format.

14MAR12 9th race Aqueduct inner dirt track, Clmng 15K, 6F, fast track
Hillsboro Bay, filly 2008, 9 starts 3-1-2
Trainer: Michael Miceli
Broke down, vanned off, euthanized.
Source: Equibase chart and PQ data entry.
DDT


DDT