Silent Witness VS Ghostzapper

[Derby2004]

On bloodhorse.com, the connections of Silent Witness are considering a $3 million dollar match race against Ghostzapper at Santa Anita later in the year, Seabiscuit all over again? Could it be the race of the new century?

[madelyn]

Wouldn't be much of a match.... Silent Witness all the way...

[FOS]

hi Derby2004

It could be exciting.

Considering both horses at 100%...

...and on the dirt going counterclockwise (USA)...whether 6f or 7f or further...Ghostzapper would crush Silent Witness. Not even a maybe.

On the turf...going clockwise...6f or 7f...Silent Witness might have a chance.

If there were two races...and each was over the surface...in the direction...and at the distance that each horse preferred...it could be particularly interesting.

Respectfully

[st. louis kid]

considering both horses at 100%, that's about once every year and a half for Ghostzapper. Certainly has the right name with ghost in it, he is about as hard to find on a racetrack as a ghost. If that is the best the us can offer it is embarassing.

[llbean]

Ghostzapper ran at least 4 brilliant races last year:

4 Divided by 12 Months equals a Brilliant Race once every 3 Months, not once every 1 and a half years (which is 18 Months).

At least try to be "In the Ballpark", as they say...

-llbean

[Sam]

Personally, I don't see it happening.

I don't like Frankel and I think he would sabotage the horse and get it off to stud before he would let it happen.

Had the BC been run anywhere other than Lone Star, Ghostzapper would not have won like he did and probably wouldn't have won at all.

FOS .. "on the turf, Silent Witness MIGHT have a chance"? On the turf, Ghostzapper wouldn't even be in the race. You're one of the worse in overstating how good he is.

[StrawberryFelidos]

It sounds like a nice dream to me...but in real life I don't see it happening. Adena Springs is already planning to stand Ghostzapper after his racing career, according to their website, and I don't think the stud farm would be happy to see their big name go-up and risk his impressive record (and subsequent Eclipse award possibilities) in a match race against a foreign superstar. If he wins it, he's gold. If he loses it he loses more than a race in the deal-he loses $$ value. Silent Witness, on the other hand, has no stud career to worry about. He has everything to gain.

Unless Ghostzapper suddenly becomes infertile I don't see it happening.
We could, however, whip-out Cigar for another round
(I know it ain't happening either...but let me dream)

[FOS]

hi Sam

As you know...I believe that Ghostzapper is much more than just a VERY good horse. I can't tell you what he or Frankel is up to now...but on the dirt, GZ is clearly extremely versatile (6f to 10f) and freaky-fast...and was definitely the worthy recipient of 2004 Horse of the Year honors.

Sam you wrote "Had the BC been run anywhere other than Lone Star, Ghostzapper would not have won like he did and probably wouldn't have won at all." Sam...what about Silent Witness? He has NEVER raced anywhere other than at his home at Sha Tin (Hong Kong)...that raises some interesting questions don't you think? At least we know Ghostzapper can ship and win...Silent Witness has NEVER even left his own backyard.

Regarding a Silent Witness vs Ghostzapper race...some of my concerns might be 1/ if on the turf (6f or 7f) would Ghostzapper make the necessary transition to the surface and, 2/ if running clockwise...would he blow the turns.

But on the dirt (counterclockwise)...I don't give Silent Witness a shot...unless of course Ghostzapper falls down or loses his rider or his saddle slips (or equipment failure...whatever).

I expect that if a single match-race is ever announced...it will not be under the perfect conditions for either horse. That's why I felt that if it's to be pursued...each horse should have things their way (distance...direction...and surface) in one of the two races. Each then has an excuse if beaten by the opponent in the race that favors the other. Conversely if one of the horses wins both races...a Horse-of-the-World might be (at least hypothetically) crowned...and all the speculation might be put to rest.

Respectfully

[Sam]

I believe that Ghostzapper is much more than just a VERY good horse.

That's all he is in my opinion. He's a very good horse, but no where near the best I've ever seen, either in a single performance or as an overall racer (and that has nothing to do with my extreme dislike of Frankel).

but on the dirt, GZ is clearly extremely versatile (6f to 10f) and freaky-fast

Agreed

definitely the worthy recipient of 2004 Horse of the Year honors.

eeeeeh ... he was the best we had to offer. I don't consider 4 races a 'year long campaign' but of all the horses nominated, I couldn't see anyone else being better qualified.

Sam...what about Silent Witness? He has NEVER raced anywhere other than at his home at Sha Tin (Hong Kong)...that raises some interesting questions don't you think? At least we know Ghostzapper can ship and win...Silent Witness has NEVER even left his own backyard.

By that logic, neither has Ghostzapper. Don't denigrate a horse for not having left his home country. There are MANY great international racehorses that have never left their homeland. Sunline (I can't remember her every having left AUS/NZ) comes to mine and few would argue she wasn't a world class horse.

On the same note, I really detest this "For a horse to be considered great, he has to come to American, run on the dirt and run past 7 furlongs" attitude that some people have. Especially since it's really only North American that has this sick obsession with dirt racing.

What the hell is wrong with being a specialist? Why this idiotic idea that we have to force a horse to do something that is NOT part of his division (females running against males) or do something contrary to what he is best at (forcing a sprinter to run past a 7 furlongs)?

Regarding a Silent Witness vs Ghostzapper race...some of my concerns might be 1/ if on the turf (6f or 7f) would Ghostzapper make the necessary transition to the surface and, 2/ if running clockwise...would he blow the turns.

Which is precisely why I don't see Frankel allowing the race to happen if it was on the grass. There's no way he'd let the horse run unless every condition was in his favour, even if Stronach wanted to do it. Frankel would 'create' an injury and get the horse retired first.

But on the dirt (counterclockwise)...I don't give Silent Witness a shot...unless of course Ghostzapper falls down or loses his rider or his saddle slips (or equipment failure...whatever).

I'd give him a shot, just not a big one. The colt IS bred to be a dirt horse. They just don't run that many dirt races over there (that I'm aware of) and certainly none with the prestige that the turf races carry.

I expect that if a single match-race is ever announced...it will not be under the perfect conditions for either horse. That's why I felt that if it's to be pursued...each horse should have things their way (distance...direction...and surface) in one of the two races.

In that case, you'd have to make it a minimum of three races so that you would clearly have a winner.

Maybe 6 furlongs run clockwise on the grass, 7 furlongs run counter clockwise on the dirt and then either a mile run on the grass going counter clockwise or a mile on the dirt going clockwise.

Honestly, I don't see direction being much of an issue. Both horses are professional enough not to be messed up by that. Surface will be an issue, and if Silent Witness can't stretch out to a mile (which I think he will with no problem), it's moot.

Again, I just don't see this happening, either as a single match race or a series.

[reenci]

people people you dont win 17...17....17...races in a row against anyone ! the odds of that happening are HUGE ! SW is the real deal....ghost zapper is very game....but as the shiek of dubai told allen paulson when he was deciding if he should run cigar over there..."if you want to be the world champion, you have to be in the race".....AP was a true sportsman .will bobby frankel and mr. s have the same moxie that AP had ? hell SW is willing to come here ..that says alot. if it all comes to pass who knows. but the way things are ....how are you going to bet against SW ? i will tell you how.....only with a fools money...he is a freak of nature. i think and this is only my opinion......anywhere's from 6f to 1 mile should be the distance....and any talk of a series of racing is fantasy.....we are not talking about trotters or pacers here. i think one race for all the marbles is just fine, and keep all the excuses home.

[hungdynasty]

I would like to know more about Ghostzapper. Is he more like a 2000m horse rather than 7f or 8f horse? For SILENT WITNESS, he is unbeatable at 5f,6f,probably 7f, any where in the world. But up to 1600m, I doubt. If the match really happen, I would like to run on 1600m.

[louis finochio]

Would someone post Silent Witness speed numbers in his races. Like 112 at 7 fur.

[Sam]

Would someone post Silent Witness speed numbers in his races. Like 112 at 7 fur.

I doubt they are available since I don't believe Beyers are used anywhere but stateside.

TVG might have something on their site.

[Double_Jay]

hi Sam

Sam you wrote "Had the BC been run anywhere other than Lone Star, Ghostzapper would not have won like he did and probably wouldn't have won at all." Sam...what about Silent Witness? He has NEVER raced anywhere other than at his home at Sha Tin (Hong Kong)...that raises some interesting questions don't you think? At least we know Ghostzapper can ship and win...Silent Witness has NEVER even left his own backyard.Respectfully

Silent Witness's backyard is quite a bit smaller than Ghostzapper's. There are what, two tracks in Hong Kong.? Sure Ghost ships, but doesn't he race against the same horses too, in his own huge backyard? I mean, Gr. I and Gr. II horses here typically run against each other, don't they, in whatever their preferred distance is?

[kimberley mine]

Yes and no, Double Jay. (Love the handle, BTW!)

Sha Tin has it's fair share of regulars, but remember that the best and brightest ship over for the Hong Kong International races. 2 years ago, a budding star from South Africa named National Currency shipped over. He was a fantastic runner, real hot stuff, and had annihilated the competition in that country. Silent Witness ran right by him like he wasn't there. Unfortunately National Currency died soon after, as there were words of a rematch as soon as both horses were over the wire.

By moving into Japan and up a distance, he's still running against horses who don't often leave their home country to race--but does it matter? The Japanese runners are tough as nail on their home turf, and rare is the outsider who will break through with them.