Interesting Lasix/Breeding stock observation made..

[BenB]

Maybe you have heard something from somebody, who has talked to someone etc.

First at the track I,ve taken my horses from the water, so they did not get water about 3 hrs. when they racing late, than they received water after 1 hr
after arrival.

It,s very easy to feed an horse up to max amount ,without testing positive if you want, but lasix can change that into too much.

Do not fault the lasix, but the basic, that someone went to the maximum possible before.

[Crystal]

Another interesting comment made to me about will this movement. Will this drive more TB breeders (with decent mares who happen to race successfully-on lasix) to a more commercial market (for a short while) i.e. trying to capitalize max ROI in their broodmare. (Long term) making her value go up if her offspring race well w/o Lasix or value decrease (thus making her less commercially appealing) if her offspring do need lasix..

[BenB]

I think, that the horses which need the lasix, becauseof the bleeding through the nostrils will be worthless.

The mare from my filly that bled, and her half brother whom bled also became a pet horse. Unless a lot lot of blue blood in her ped.

[photofinish]

The proof of the lasix debate will come on the Breeder's Cup when they ban lasix for that event. If the holier than thou Euros are correct, then horses from the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, England, France, Itlay, Poland, and Hungary should be here in droves and deliver a clean sweep over the US's "overmedicated" horses who are denied lasix. Right?

From a personal standpoint - I race with and without lasix. When I use lasix I use a minimal amount. I would rather use an adjunct than more lasix, myslef. I don;t pull water, either. I won;t top off a bucket 4 hrs out, but if they 1/2 a bucket or so we leave it in the stall with them. Seldom do they drink the whole 1/2 bucket, but if they want some water they get a bit.

[BenB]

In the netherlands there are no thoroughbreds that are able to compete succesfully on group level, but to other circumstances. It would take at least 10 pages to describe the origing from that.

Maybe the english and french raiders will come up, but new york would be more in line to think about for european raiders.

Why are there so less US raiders at Royal Ascot???

Why were there so little in numbers at Dubai last year.?

[madelyn]

.....Why are there so less US raiders at Royal Ascot???

Why were there so little in numbers at Dubai last year.?

A very big consideration, in asking these questions, is the cost of shipping to compete vs. purse, vs other races available at that time in the US. You can ship a horse to a stakes with a professional outfit (includes personal groom for horse, taking care of everything) for $800 a day or $2400 total. It would be $20K or more to ship to RA or Dubai. Not to mention the whole quarantine deal and the wear and tear on the horse. You are extremely quick to pounce on Lasix as the equivalent of the Axis of Evil that will Doom American Thoroughbreds forever.

[BenB]

Madelyn,

i,ve always stated, that in my humble opinion, there is much more harm on the long run, than benefits.

After 40yrs lasix use, there are stll no advantages, other than that 95% from the horses are using the stuff, instead of 5% getting profits from it.

And that 5% should be removed from racing in my opinion.

And because it is an diurectic, it is not permittable overhere.

[winds]

Ben B, we're obviously not going to change your mind. But from someone with track experience ( and not just as a groom, but as an assistant trainer ) lasix is ok in my books. It stops horses from becoming bad bleeders, and allows horses that bleed to run to the best of their ability. It doesn't make them faster, it just allows them to run, period. Without lasix yes, their times aren't as good, but that's because they are bleeding and slow down and don't run to the best of their ability.

I think it should be allowed on race day.

winds

[BenB]

The only important source is the money, involved in the investment in the horse buisiness and it has not a damn to do with ability from horses.

As long as they run faster, with the stuff, than without is it point proven.

There is no way, that you are able to prevent a horse becoming an bad bleeder, because that part is or is not inherited.

So the prelimary difference, is the opinion from the rest of the world against
the opinion from an part of the US trianers, and a minority from the owners.

There was already a talk from ripping of black type in the sales books outside the US.

So the change in Kentucky will get a warm and applauded response.

If racehorses are bleeding through their nostrils they will lower their speed naturally.

[winds]

The only important source is the money, involved in the investment in the horse buisiness and it has not a damn to do with ethics.

So the prelimary difference, is the opinion from the rest of the world against 5% from the thoroughbred owners in the US.

There is already a talk from ripping of black type in the sales books outside the US.

So the change in Kentucky will get a warm and applauded response.

If they are bleeding they will stop within 2 furlongs after the start.

You don't think it's dangerous for horses to be stopping in a race after a 1/4 of a mile?! What about the other horses and jockeys? Really? I mean really. I don't care what the other juristicians think about our racing, they seem to come over for the Breeders Cup and they send their bleeders over to this country so they can run on lasix. So much for the high minded people in the rest of the world. Your wrong Ben, just wrong.

winds

[BenB]

I haven,t seen never, a horse breaking down, because of the bleeding. They won,t even stop at once , but decreasing their speed.

If bleeders are send over, than somebody obvious thinks in US they can make money out of them using lasix.

As long as the stuff is legal (only in the US), off course you are acting the way it suits you.

[TJ]

I haven,t seen never, a horse breaking down, because of the bleeding. They won,t even stop at once , but decreasing their speed.

If bleeders are send over, than somebody obvious thinks in US they can make money out of them using lasix.

As long as the stuff is legal (only in the US), off course you are acting the way it suits you.

Hi Ben,
No the Euro owners send their bleeders to America to be trained here so they can use lasix, same owner's different trainers....seems they may be the greedy ones looking for more money out of their horse who should would have been retired from racing and stay in their own country.....guess money matters to them too? The Euro trainers also use lasix when they bring their horses to America to race...maybe one or two at the most didn't run on all permissible drugs used in America. If they know enough to use these drugs when they ship to America you can bet they are using them leading up to every race they run in their own country....they simply withdraw accordingly. TJ

[BenB]

Writting it in a different way, somebody or some are terrible greedy, and take the position handed over.

If the US prohibited the use of lasix in at least the black type races, than a lot less of horses will be either imported from the US or exported to the US.

[TJ]

Writting it in a different way, somebody or some are terrible greedy, and take the position handed over.

If the US prohibited the use of lasix in at least the black type races, than a lot less of horses will be either imported from the US or exported to the US.

Hi Ben,
Not written in a different way...just saying owners on your side of the pond are terribly greedy as well....they sent them here to run on lasix, not the other way around.
There is no doubt that lasix will be banned in the USA...yet that won't really solve the drug issue. It will set up a new market for those who want to cheat. It will send many more horses to the meat man and render other TB's useless to their breed. Actually I would like to see some humans in this very same category:>) So don't worry about lasix....it will be banned, but it certainly won't solve any of racing's problems....it will add to them. TJ

[casallc]

A Natural Solution to Address Bleeding in Racehorses

http://thoroedge.wordpress.com/2011/06/ ... acehorses/