Were there perhaps two different Australian cases? The one in my memory, was where the mare had a live cover, then the embryo(s) were flushed and inplanted in a host mare. Which would meet the requirements of live cover. At the time I thought that might have a chance as it would have no financial impact on the stallion part of the business. (Which is where the major money is)
It is also possible that the article that I read was wrong in some or all of the details.
There was a lot of publicity about cloning the racing mule, and the writers were really, really wrong in the science. The mule wasn't cloned. A repeat breeding to the same parents produced a embryo that was induced to split. These were then carried to term by host mares. So they were artifical identical siblings of the famous race mule. Not clones.
Rachel Alexandra in danger
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Pan Zareta
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xfactor fan wrote:Were there perhaps two different Australian cases? The one in my memory, was where the mare had a live cover, then the embryo(s) were flushed and inplanted in a host mare. Which would meet the requirements of live cover. At the time I thought that might have a chance as it would have no financial impact on the stallion part of the business. (Which is where the major money is)
It is also possible that the article that I read was wrong in some or all of the details.
There was a lot of publicity about cloning the racing mule, and the writers were really, really wrong in the science. The mule wasn't cloned. A repeat breeding to the same parents produced a embryo that was induced to split. These were then carried to term by host mares. So they were artifical identical siblings of the famous race mule. Not clones.
I vaguely recall an Australian breeder trying, unsuccessfully, to register an ET TB foal around the time the AQHA case was still in litigation, i.e. 2001-2002. Sorry, thought you meant the recent AI case in AUS.
Her's a link to the latest. According to the article the "vets are pleased with her progress"..
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... s-progress
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... s-progress
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Cryptic Ninja
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xfactor fan wrote:Were there perhaps two different Australian cases? The one in my memory, was where the mare had a live cover, then the embryo(s) were flushed and inplanted in a host mare. Which would meet the requirements of live cover. At the time I thought that might have a chance as it would have no financial impact on the stallion part of the business. (Which is where the major money is)
It is also possible that the article that I read was wrong in some or all of the details.
The mare in question was Eau d'Etoile
http://www.pedigreequery.com/eau+detoile
http://forum.thoroughbredvillage.com.au ... 10653.html
xfactor fan wrote:Were there perhaps two different Australian cases? The one in my memory, was where the mare had a live cover, then the embryo(s) were flushed and inplanted in a host mare. Which would meet the requirements of live cover.......
From the Jockey Club rule book, eligibility for registration:
D. To be eligible for registration, a foal must be the result of a stallion’s Breeding with a broodmare (which is the physical mounting of a broodmare by a stallion with intromission of the penis and ejaculation of semen into the reproductive tract). As an aid to the Breeding, a portion of the ejaculate produced by the stallion during such mating may immediately be placed in the uterus of the broodmare being bred. A natural gestation must take place in, and delivery must be from, the body of the same broodmare in which the foal was conceived. Without limiting the above, any foal resulting from or produced by the processes of Artificial Insemination, Embryo Transfer or Transplant, Cloning or any other form of genetic manipulation not herein specified, shall not be eligible for registration.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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xfactor fan
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You know, I wonder how many hush hush hush's are done out in the breeding world every year? Even if it means a great mares eggs being put into a non raced mare? Its GOT to happens sometimes and the JC just does not know about it. I would not go through the veterinary bills to have that done, and thats saying you have one that would do that, but again, its had to have happened at one time or another. 
We will NEVER see another Ruffian......
ET is not a cheap nor easy process that any old vet can or will do. The likelihood of it happening at some time would be very slim, but impossible to say "never".
RA's injury this time around is really not a "foaling" problem though is it, not directly related to a dystocia or gestation? This same type of internal injury can occur in any horse regardless of reproduction status? Essentially treated like a colic surgery with resection of the damaged portion...and most colic surgeries resolve just fine to compete, breed and live long healthy lives. She was managed for "pain" after the first foal which in my experience is not entirely strange or uncommon in maiden mares. I don't know, I'd be shocked if they retire her from breeding and unless there is more than is being shared with the media, I wouldn't assume she's done or should be done. That's a huge decision to make from 2 seemingly unrelated post foaling issues.
RA's injury this time around is really not a "foaling" problem though is it, not directly related to a dystocia or gestation? This same type of internal injury can occur in any horse regardless of reproduction status? Essentially treated like a colic surgery with resection of the damaged portion...and most colic surgeries resolve just fine to compete, breed and live long healthy lives. She was managed for "pain" after the first foal which in my experience is not entirely strange or uncommon in maiden mares. I don't know, I'd be shocked if they retire her from breeding and unless there is more than is being shared with the media, I wouldn't assume she's done or should be done. That's a huge decision to make from 2 seemingly unrelated post foaling issues.
A woman needs 2 animals in her life-the horse of her dreams, and a jackass to pay for it!
You know, I had the same thing happen to me, only obviously different circumstances because I'm a human and she had hoofs and long legs in her to tear at the intenstinal tract.
I had what was supposed to be a routine surgery, and instead the doctor took out the wrong part in me, a part of my colon that he did not catch, and like Rachel, it took a couple of days for the mass explosion, and the sepsis/infection that happens in this kind of injury does things to the body, the muscle, the heart, everything. Within a few hours I was completely a purple color, and during surgery, the poisoning got to my heart and it stoppped. They gave me what I call the magic shot in the heart to get it going again, but you are never, NEVER, the same. I was never able to have any children due to this.
I never like to talk about it, its still a horror that I have nightmares about. I still have to have surgeries and the initial mistake happened in 1998! I just this week had to have surgery for a long term side effect as a result of this bad surgery.
I really would not take the chance to breed Rachel again. Resectioned colons do eventually heal, but they are still never the same, nor is the body. Your muscles do weird things because of the poisoning, and you have strange heart pains here and there and its because of the poisoning as well. I understand she is bigger than a human, but the foals are bigger than human babies, (even tho mine was not due to a baby issue) and I truly believe they need to not even take that small chance because there will always now be a chance, that Rachel will have this happen again. She seems to be a mare that has large foals. Stonestreet said hers was the largest foal they had. Just read that on their facebook page today.
Sometimes the breed breed breed mentality needs to be stopped in order to save a life. I truly believe and feel with all my heart this is one of those situations. They have two foals from her from two great champions. Be happy with them and concentrate on them and their future and let Rachel live her life on the farm safe and sound.
I'm glad to hear she is getting better. They really could have lost her, they were so close to it. If it were not for someone realizing something was amiss with her, and good surgeons, she would no longer be with us and I think she is more important as who she is compared to trying to breed her more in the future.
I had what was supposed to be a routine surgery, and instead the doctor took out the wrong part in me, a part of my colon that he did not catch, and like Rachel, it took a couple of days for the mass explosion, and the sepsis/infection that happens in this kind of injury does things to the body, the muscle, the heart, everything. Within a few hours I was completely a purple color, and during surgery, the poisoning got to my heart and it stoppped. They gave me what I call the magic shot in the heart to get it going again, but you are never, NEVER, the same. I was never able to have any children due to this.
I never like to talk about it, its still a horror that I have nightmares about. I still have to have surgeries and the initial mistake happened in 1998! I just this week had to have surgery for a long term side effect as a result of this bad surgery.
I really would not take the chance to breed Rachel again. Resectioned colons do eventually heal, but they are still never the same, nor is the body. Your muscles do weird things because of the poisoning, and you have strange heart pains here and there and its because of the poisoning as well. I understand she is bigger than a human, but the foals are bigger than human babies, (even tho mine was not due to a baby issue) and I truly believe they need to not even take that small chance because there will always now be a chance, that Rachel will have this happen again. She seems to be a mare that has large foals. Stonestreet said hers was the largest foal they had. Just read that on their facebook page today.
Sometimes the breed breed breed mentality needs to be stopped in order to save a life. I truly believe and feel with all my heart this is one of those situations. They have two foals from her from two great champions. Be happy with them and concentrate on them and their future and let Rachel live her life on the farm safe and sound.
I'm glad to hear she is getting better. They really could have lost her, they were so close to it. If it were not for someone realizing something was amiss with her, and good surgeons, she would no longer be with us and I think she is more important as who she is compared to trying to breed her more in the future.
We will NEVER see another Ruffian......
"only obviously different circumstances because I'm a human and she had hoofs and long legs in her to tear at the intestinal tract."
But the foal didn't tear into he intestinal tract. It was section of her colon that lost blood supply and died, then ruptured into the abdominal cavity. From what Ive read, there was no damage to her repro tract at all (which if the foal had managed to physically perforate her intestine, there would have to be).
I still don't think 2 unrelated incidents, one a complete fluke, one a common maiden occurrence, should automatically take her off the list as a repro candidate. And I also don't think it's the "breed breed breed" mentality. She's a spectacular mare, and as long as she is deemed healthy after all is said and done, no reason she should be retired.
But the foal didn't tear into he intestinal tract. It was section of her colon that lost blood supply and died, then ruptured into the abdominal cavity. From what Ive read, there was no damage to her repro tract at all (which if the foal had managed to physically perforate her intestine, there would have to be).
I still don't think 2 unrelated incidents, one a complete fluke, one a common maiden occurrence, should automatically take her off the list as a repro candidate. And I also don't think it's the "breed breed breed" mentality. She's a spectacular mare, and as long as she is deemed healthy after all is said and done, no reason she should be retired.
A woman needs 2 animals in her life-the horse of her dreams, and a jackass to pay for it!
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karenkarenn
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Actually there is a good reason to retire her from breeding. What she went through is ENOUGH. We have enough horses racing. Yes, I can relate because in my last pregnancy, I was a few hours away from death. Thank God for C section's and Dr.s with the latest technology.
We have so MANY people trashing horse racing over ANYTHING and here is another thing for people to scream about. Why give the media more to write about. Let her be a horse for the rest of her life, and not a baby factory.
K
We have so MANY people trashing horse racing over ANYTHING and here is another thing for people to scream about. Why give the media more to write about. Let her be a horse for the rest of her life, and not a baby factory.
K
Latest news after finding and draining an abcsess adjacent to Rachel's reproductive tract and rectum this past Thursday. TJ
http://www.drf.com/news/rachel-alexandr ... in-abscess
http://www.drf.com/news/rachel-alexandr ... in-abscess
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karenkarenn
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Take away the emotion for a minute.
Say if RA never raced.
She is just another farm animal like a pig of cow.
She needs to be bred to earn her keep.
Hopefully a better choice of sire will be chosen next possibly Distorted Humour.
And if she gets re bred like you suggested and has to have a life threatening procedure that would cost the farmer a WHOLE lot more than he or she can afford and possibly loosing the baby because of the incident. Then the farmer would be broke.... DUH! What do you think farmers are, rich? They would cull her immediately if she couldn't be bred because of her issue.
I hope that she makes it, I really do.