How much is too much inbreeding?

[Camish]

Say a foal is inbred 2x2 to a certain sire, is that too much inbreeding too close? I've seen this done numerous times with QHs, but is it very common with TBs?

[llbean]

It depends; the fundamental thing with this is that it's been tried more in the QH than the TB and this is the reason it's worked more.

Anyway, the pattern worked in TBs in the important speed sire Ultimus (2x2 to Domino) and the very nice American Bred Argentenian Broodmare Mystify (2x2 to Domino again). Also, you'll find a stallion named Hippodrome (2x2 to Domino) coming through as the damsire of the great matriarch Beaming Beauty (found in Seattle Slew's dam, Damascus, etc.).

Notice a pattern?

Fanny Wright, the 5th dam of Grand Prix de Paris and Ascot Gold Cup Winner Foxhall, was 2x2 to her double granddam Pandora (this is a branch of the very important Selima female family).

Going even further back, the great early American Racer and broodmare Bonnets O' Blue was 2x2 to Sir Archy, and she was the dam of the famous racemare Fashion and her half-brother Mariner (who was the damsire of Lady Blessington, an important sub-branch of the Cub Mare family with decendants including Ack Ack and recent Lexington Winner Coin Silver).

-llbean

[Camish]

Thanks for the info!

[zinn21]

inbreeding is not in itself a disease. what inbreeding promotes is sameness. if good traits are abundantly present and passed down (i.e. speed; correctness; soundness; strong constitution) then theoretically the closer you inbreed the greater the opportunity to produce a superior animal. on the flip side, the same might occur if bad traits are passed on and a poor performance results. that's what makes inbreeding so fascinating. it's a gamble. i believe inbreeding can be an excellent way to produce a superior individual provided the sire is capable of producing a good athlete whether outcrossed or inbred. the odds on producing a superior animal by taking an unraced unproven son of Storm Cat and breeding him to a poor producing daughter of Storm Cat are very slim.. you will likely produce an animal with predominantly the poor genetic traits mom and dad primarily possess.

[louis finochio]

When you select your stallions for your mares check to see if the stallions have produced superior runners with inbred or outcross families.

Some stallions will produce superior runnes when only bred to certain families, and other stallions will produce with several different sire lines.

What a positive nick for one stallion will be a negative nick for another.

By doing your home work you will find those breeding patterns that have produced an abundance of superior runners.

[SemparQuel]

You may see also:
CORONATION, by DJEBEL, 2x2 TOURBILLON, great classic winner
FLAGETTE, by ESCAMILLO, 2x2 FIRDAUSSI, dam of HERBAGER

[louis finochio]

All of the previous post families are stamina oriented, If you want those families in your breeding program go ahead and breed 2 X 2, as it will balance out those speed families.

[KamiBrooks]

Something that would be interesting to consider is how many times a 2x2 breeding has been attempted compared to how many times it has worked. For example, three successfull 2x2 Domino breedings were provided, but how many total times was that tried? If this is from a total of only 5 attempts at 2x2 Domino, then that is positive; but if this is from a pool of 105 attempts, then the odds are not as positive.

Other things that can 'scew' analysis is a strong (or believed to be strong) broodmare sire that may show up closely inbred (usually 3x3 or higher) very often, but more likely as a result of two compatible sire lines not the broodmare sire himself. Buckpasser is one like that. He's often inbred, but the successful matings are more likely to have him on the dam side of two compatible sire lines.

just some thoughts