I just noticed him yesterday, perusing the stallion directories. He's a full brother to Unbridled's Song, but without the $125,000 price tag. The big "BUT" is that he's unraced.
Anyone know why? Did they just yank him straight into the breeding shed? He's one of the best put-together stallions I've looked at, in my opinion (edit- well... maybe a little straight through the hocks, but that's it!)... I think he's gorgeous... being that he is a full brother, what is the genetic probability of him producing as well? Of course, he just started breeding this year... I think I will be following his produce records when his foals hit the track...
What does one decide in this case? Could he be as good, or is he genetically a "cheap knock-off"?
Here's his page/photo:
http://www.stallionregister.com/sr_sire_page.asp?refno=6224898&origin=singlesearch
Spanish Steps
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Spanish Steps
Last edited by skeenan on Thu May 26, 2005 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Time will tell, but usually when a horse is unraced, there's a physical or mental reason that can often be passed on. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets one or two very nice horses (well-bred horses with no track records often do that much); the big question is whether he can get useful runners consistently.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
Hi Mahubah,
How are you
Missed you. Things are holding here for the moment.
I don't feel that there is any substitute for performance. Saint Ballado was as good or better a sire than his full brother, Devil's Bag, but he was a graded SW in his own right.
@$5,000 Spanish Steps isn't a bargain. If you can afford and can get to Songandaprayer, you'll have a top son of Unbridled's Song whose foals have looked great and have consistently rewarded their breeders from those that have already sold.
Regards,
Pete
How are you
Missed you. Things are holding here for the moment.
I don't feel that there is any substitute for performance. Saint Ballado was as good or better a sire than his full brother, Devil's Bag, but he was a graded SW in his own right.
@$5,000 Spanish Steps isn't a bargain. If you can afford and can get to Songandaprayer, you'll have a top son of Unbridled's Song whose foals have looked great and have consistently rewarded their breeders from those that have already sold.
Regards,
Pete
"Worth" is a relative term. but it's worth noting that stakes-placed Drewman, a three-parts brother to Unbridled's Song, stands at Ocala Stud for $2500 -- seems a much better value than Spanish Steps -- half the fee and he at least proved he could run a little.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
Hi Skeenan,
As I said, there is no substitute for performance.
Rock Slide is a full brother to Mine Shaft standing in Maryland. He was a SW on turf and dirt winning 9 races and over $440k. His fee is $7,500 so he's well priced. Compare him to Spanish Steps.
The bottom line is always how you intend to use the stallion. If you want to sell and feel that Spanish Steps foals will be commercial, he may present value to you.
How one analyzes a new stallions value is an individual thing. I look for race record (and quality of competition) first and foremost, then pedigree and conformation almost equally. I'd switch conformation and pedigree if I were breeding to race.
Hope that helps,
Pete
As I said, there is no substitute for performance.
Rock Slide is a full brother to Mine Shaft standing in Maryland. He was a SW on turf and dirt winning 9 races and over $440k. His fee is $7,500 so he's well priced. Compare him to Spanish Steps.
The bottom line is always how you intend to use the stallion. If you want to sell and feel that Spanish Steps foals will be commercial, he may present value to you.
How one analyzes a new stallions value is an individual thing. I look for race record (and quality of competition) first and foremost, then pedigree and conformation almost equally. I'd switch conformation and pedigree if I were breeding to race.
Hope that helps,
Pete
Yes, all very helpful!
I know "worth" is a relative term... I guess I was looking at the comparison of Spanish Steps against his brother when I said it. As in, are you getting what you pay for, or does brother to brother equal out in the gene pool, regardless of the difference in stud fees... hope I'm making sense putting it that way, and yes, you've all answered it for me!
In a few years, I will feel compelled to check out his progeny record, for curiosity's sake, though!
I know "worth" is a relative term... I guess I was looking at the comparison of Spanish Steps against his brother when I said it. As in, are you getting what you pay for, or does brother to brother equal out in the gene pool, regardless of the difference in stud fees... hope I'm making sense putting it that way, and yes, you've all answered it for me!
In a few years, I will feel compelled to check out his progeny record, for curiosity's sake, though!
Hi Skeenan,
If you can, find out what prevented him from racing. I would look more favorably on an unraced stallion prospect who was kicked by another horse and injured than I would one who was injured in training.
A very good idea to follow the career of Spanish Steps although if he's a success you'll feel a bit left out. If not, you'll feel righteous, so keep putting your pants on one leg at a time
Pete
If you can, find out what prevented him from racing. I would look more favorably on an unraced stallion prospect who was kicked by another horse and injured than I would one who was injured in training.
A very good idea to follow the career of Spanish Steps although if he's a success you'll feel a bit left out. If not, you'll feel righteous, so keep putting your pants on one leg at a time
Pete
It doesn't always work out so neatly, but there's a nice correlation between racing ability and stud performance in The Minstrel and his full brothers. The Minstrel, a champion, was an excellent sire; Far North, a G3 winner in France, was moderately successful and sired champion older male The Wicked North; Pilgrim, a minor SW in Ireland, sired a few decent runners but no more; and unraced Imperial Guard was a bust in the US (don't know anything to speak of about his record in New Zealand, where I think he wound up).
I've seen a number of cases where the lesser performer of a pair of brothers forged a stud record comparable to the better-racing brother (Sir Gallahad III/Bull Dog, Graustark/His Majesty) but in most of these cases, the "lesser" brother was still a decent racehorse. The one case that comes to mind immediately where the poorer runner became much the better sire is Viceregal/Vice Regent; Viceregal was a champion while Vice Regent never won a stakes, but Vice Regent was much the better sire.
I've seen a number of cases where the lesser performer of a pair of brothers forged a stud record comparable to the better-racing brother (Sir Gallahad III/Bull Dog, Graustark/His Majesty) but in most of these cases, the "lesser" brother was still a decent racehorse. The one case that comes to mind immediately where the poorer runner became much the better sire is Viceregal/Vice Regent; Viceregal was a champion while Vice Regent never won a stakes, but Vice Regent was much the better sire.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
I would far rather breed to a son of Unbridled Song than a brother (an unraced one no less). A full brother likely has none of the genetic qualities of his full brother; at least a son has a chance to get some of those genetics. In comparison, in Florida, I would rather breed to Unbridled Time at $5,000 than Spanish Steps for the same money.
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Coquinerie
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Sysonby wrote:How many unraced stallions are actually worth anything? I can't think of one since Alibhai that became leading sire and if you move your sights lower, you can include Staff Writer as a good regional sire. Who else?
Aferd comes to mind in the regional department and some of his foal were top knotch.
hi guys
Spanish Steps? If you like unraced...back at the knee...bad legged stallions...Spanish Steps might be your guy.
And a $5,000 stud fee tagged on him...ridiculous may be too generous a description. If they'll pay you $5,000 he might be worth consideration. On second thought...scratch that idea.
Crazy part is...some nice mares were apparently purchased to be bred to him. So don't be surprised if you see some nice pedigrees show up vis a vis mares in foal (or whatever).
I suggest that right now there is Zero...Nada...No upside for a breeder to use Spanish Steps...Yecckkkkkk.
Respectfully
Spanish Steps? If you like unraced...back at the knee...bad legged stallions...Spanish Steps might be your guy.
And a $5,000 stud fee tagged on him...ridiculous may be too generous a description. If they'll pay you $5,000 he might be worth consideration. On second thought...scratch that idea.
Crazy part is...some nice mares were apparently purchased to be bred to him. So don't be surprised if you see some nice pedigrees show up vis a vis mares in foal (or whatever).
I suggest that right now there is Zero...Nada...No upside for a breeder to use Spanish Steps...Yecckkkkkk.
Respectfully