Hi Tairaterces,
I remember how the older pundits knocked Secretariat for not beating older horses while giving weight because that was the true measure of greatness to them.
I hear you, Ghostzapper won't be a great weight carrier, his trainer has assured this but it's also a function of the times and conditions that he races.
It would be great if a horse comes along who would have made them proud to call great but I'll take Ghostzapper's brilliance however it's served.
SuzyD, Castledale ran a nice race but there's a world of difference between racing on the turf and dirt. Look at the other fractions and times for the grass races at Hollywood on 5/30 (when Castledale won). Very consistent call times, faster last 4f then first 4f, etc. Fast fractions on dirt take the starch out of the front runners - and sometimes the stretch runners too.
RacerX, keep in mind that Beyers are subjective numbers based on formulas of times and track bias. You could and many do make their own numbers. The bottom line is that raw number analysis has no way of showing Ghostzapper's brilliance.
Regards,
Pete
Ghostzapper
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louis finochio
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Ghostzapper will be bigger, stronger, and faster at 4 than 3. GZ will be able to carry more weight at 4 than 3.
Thanks to Mr. Stronach for racing GZ so all us TB fans will have a super star TB role model to look forward to. FS is showing his class good luck GZ in 05.
Thanks to Mr. Stronach for racing GZ so all us TB fans will have a super star TB role model to look forward to. FS is showing his class good luck GZ in 05.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Hi Louis,
Actually, Ghostzapper's now 5.
He looked slight in the Metropolitan, not a big nor impressive physical specimen. He did look very relaxed and loose though while Forest Danger was walking short, was very high strung and though physically more impressive, was not as fluid.
Frankel made some comment's about Ghostzapper not being as filled out as he would have liked and the horse looked the part (slight as above).
Pete
Actually, Ghostzapper's now 5.
He looked slight in the Metropolitan, not a big nor impressive physical specimen. He did look very relaxed and loose though while Forest Danger was walking short, was very high strung and though physically more impressive, was not as fluid.
Frankel made some comment's about Ghostzapper not being as filled out as he would have liked and the horse looked the part (slight as above).
Pete
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StrawberryFelidos
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It looks like the plans have changed for Ghostzapper again, he'll be skipping the Suburban in July and will train up to his August race:
http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=28412
Think Ghostzapper can win Horse of the Year off of 3 starts this time?
"You've got the best horse you've had in the last 20 years running around here and you don't have it on television...He's the best horse in America and nobody knows about it...This horse should have a huge fan following."
Maybe he would if he ran a little bit more...This stuff just drives me a little crazy, although he isn't my horse and it really is none of my business. Can't run the horse 'cuz you can't afford a loss...is this what superstars are made of? These days, I guess
http://racing.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=28412
Think Ghostzapper can win Horse of the Year off of 3 starts this time?
"You've got the best horse you've had in the last 20 years running around here and you don't have it on television...He's the best horse in America and nobody knows about it...This horse should have a huge fan following."
Maybe he would if he ran a little bit more...This stuff just drives me a little crazy, although he isn't my horse and it really is none of my business. Can't run the horse 'cuz you can't afford a loss...is this what superstars are made of? These days, I guess
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louis finochio
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Bobby Frankel has his reasons for not running GZ at every dance in 05.
A trainer must map out a schedule that is best for his horse.
Some TB can run every few weeks and others cant. This is were the Hall of Fame trainers excell as they observe their TB and find their hole card and then do what is best for their TB.
Patience is the name of the game, as a trainer without patience will have no TB left to train.
A trainer must map out a schedule that is best for his horse.
Some TB can run every few weeks and others cant. This is were the Hall of Fame trainers excell as they observe their TB and find their hole card and then do what is best for their TB.
Patience is the name of the game, as a trainer without patience will have no TB left to train.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
StrawberryFelidos wrote:Think Ghostzapper can win Horse of the Year off of 3 starts this time?
If he does, they'll have made a sham of what HOY is suppose to mean.
Asshole isn't even a strong enough word for what Frankel is. Last thing we need is for him to be the figurehead for this sport. Hell, I'd rather a 'butcher' like Lukas or Baffert (not my term, just what they normally get called) get all the press than a schmuck like Frankel.
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louis finochio
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Frankel said: Its not the weakening of the breed, that we cant run our TB more, its because the TB are running faster than they were 20 years ago.
The change in the wind is the stamina is being eliminated in the breed and speed to speed is producing faster TB and soundness is becoming a rare occurance of the past.
Frankel would never make an impression in the breeding game, as his quote went right over his head.
The change in the wind is the stamina is being eliminated in the breed and speed to speed is producing faster TB and soundness is becoming a rare occurance of the past.
Frankel would never make an impression in the breeding game, as his quote went right over his head.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
hi Strawberry Felidos
You ask "Think Ghostzapper can win Horse of the Year off of 3 starts this time?"
Absolutely YES...probably 2.
You commented "Can't run the horse 'cuz you can't afford a loss...is this what superstars are made of? These days, I guess."
Ghostzapper is a "Superstar" regardless of the number of starts he makes. Make no mistake...Ghostzapper is a GREAT racehorse!!! And don't forget...he's the one that was asked to carry the highweight (and will be asked to continue to do so in the handicaps)...not the others. All Things Considered (not the least of which is that Ghostzapper's trouncing of the field in the Met Mile was his first start after a 6 mo +- layoff)...if the decision is to skip the Suburban because the horse might need some extra time off after his incredible performance...so be it. If Ghostzapper's trainer Frankel believes the horse needs more time before he runs again...that's the call. It's about doing what's best for the horse...in this case the reigning Horse of the Year.
And don't lose sight of the fact that Frankel's been entrusted with arguably the most Gifted...Talented and Versatile racehorse that many (including Dr Fager's trainer John Nerud) seem to think is the best we've seen in years and years and years...Ghostzapper.
StrawberryFelidos...horses running back when they might not be ready is arguably what we see all too often. Chastising Frankel over his call to pass on the Suburban is totally unfounded as far as I'm concerned.
Best to you.
Respectfully
You ask "Think Ghostzapper can win Horse of the Year off of 3 starts this time?"
Absolutely YES...probably 2.
You commented "Can't run the horse 'cuz you can't afford a loss...is this what superstars are made of? These days, I guess."
Ghostzapper is a "Superstar" regardless of the number of starts he makes. Make no mistake...Ghostzapper is a GREAT racehorse!!! And don't forget...he's the one that was asked to carry the highweight (and will be asked to continue to do so in the handicaps)...not the others. All Things Considered (not the least of which is that Ghostzapper's trouncing of the field in the Met Mile was his first start after a 6 mo +- layoff)...if the decision is to skip the Suburban because the horse might need some extra time off after his incredible performance...so be it. If Ghostzapper's trainer Frankel believes the horse needs more time before he runs again...that's the call. It's about doing what's best for the horse...in this case the reigning Horse of the Year.
And don't lose sight of the fact that Frankel's been entrusted with arguably the most Gifted...Talented and Versatile racehorse that many (including Dr Fager's trainer John Nerud) seem to think is the best we've seen in years and years and years...Ghostzapper.
StrawberryFelidos...horses running back when they might not be ready is arguably what we see all too often. Chastising Frankel over his call to pass on the Suburban is totally unfounded as far as I'm concerned.
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS wrote:he's the one that was asked to carry the highweight (and will be asked to continue to do so in the handicaps)
If you consider 123lbs "highweight". It's a token, pandering BS weight assignment to me because the racing secretaries know Frankel will bitch and scratch the horse if they dare to assign it anything more than that.
Frankel is nothing more than a prima donna horse pimp.
hi Sam
123 lbs was highweight (regardless of the speculation as to why) and Ghostzapper did give up 5 to 8 pounds to EVERY other starter in the Metropolitan.
Sam...it seems clear (to me anyway) that Frankel ("prima donna" [your words]...or not) knows he's got a GREAT ONE in Ghostzapper...and I have no problem with him making whatever decision(s) he believes are in the horse's best interest.
Best to you.
Respectfully
123 lbs was highweight (regardless of the speculation as to why) and Ghostzapper did give up 5 to 8 pounds to EVERY other starter in the Metropolitan.
Sam...it seems clear (to me anyway) that Frankel ("prima donna" [your words]...or not) knows he's got a GREAT ONE in Ghostzapper...and I have no problem with him making whatever decision(s) he believes are in the horse's best interest.
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS wrote:123 lbs was highweight (regardless of the speculation as to why) and Ghostzapper did give up 5 to 8 pounds to EVERY other starter in the Metropolitan.
I'm aware it was the highweight in that race. Fact is, it was STILL a bullshit token highweight.
FOS wrote:it seems clear (to me anyway) that Frankel ("prima donna" [your words]...or not) knows he's got a GREAT ONE in Ghostzapper
And that's were we also differ. I don't consider him a great one.
FOS,
I respect your opinion that the horse was giving 5 to 8 lbs to his competitors, but he was carrying around what an older maiden would carry and giving up no more than an apprentice allowance to his most accomplished competitors. I'm not sure thats all that big an imposition even off a 6 month layoff.
I respect your opinion that the horse was giving 5 to 8 lbs to his competitors, but he was carrying around what an older maiden would carry and giving up no more than an apprentice allowance to his most accomplished competitors. I'm not sure thats all that big an imposition even off a 6 month layoff.
The way I look at it, the fact that Ghostzapper was conceding at least five pounds to his opposition was good; the problem is that the topweight was low enough that I'm not sure the concessions really made all that much difference. To my mind, the difference between 123 and 118 pounds is not nearly as significant as the difference between 130 and 125 pounds, because with the latter weights, you're starting to work closer to the animals' capacity. Any good horse ought to be able to carry scale weight without trouble; it's the ones that have shown the ability to carry more than scale, concede weight, and still win that have marked themselves as something special.
Personally, I think modern handicaps are a bad joke; it's a rare day when the topweight in a graded handicap for males is asked to pick up scale weight, much less more, and the weight spread is often less than ten pounds from top to bottom. Why bother? Just run 'em at weight for age, or under allowance conditions if you feel you must provide some sort of break to the lesser horses, and be done with it.
Anyway, regarding Ghostzapper, it's not his fault that Frankel is not exactly Mr. Charisma or that the racing world has changed so that he isn't getting a chance to see if he can match the greats of the past as a weight carrier. He is a top-class racehorse under the conditions of today; how he stacks up against this or that great of the past is somethat that you can argue until the cows come home.
Personally, I think modern handicaps are a bad joke; it's a rare day when the topweight in a graded handicap for males is asked to pick up scale weight, much less more, and the weight spread is often less than ten pounds from top to bottom. Why bother? Just run 'em at weight for age, or under allowance conditions if you feel you must provide some sort of break to the lesser horses, and be done with it.
Anyway, regarding Ghostzapper, it's not his fault that Frankel is not exactly Mr. Charisma or that the racing world has changed so that he isn't getting a chance to see if he can match the greats of the past as a weight carrier. He is a top-class racehorse under the conditions of today; how he stacks up against this or that great of the past is somethat that you can argue until the cows come home.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
hi Mahubah
You wrote "(Ghostzapper) is a top-class racehorse under the conditions of today; how he stacks up against this or that great of the past is some(thing) that you can argue until the cows come home."
Respectfully..."top-class"...an understatement maybe? If Ghostzapper is "top-class" what are horses such as Roses in May? I suggest that Ghostzapper crushes "top-class" horses...that's what separates him.
Who might you offer as more dominant and more versatile (at 6f...and 1 mile...and 1 1/4 miles) than Ghostzapper?
Best to you.
Respectfully
You wrote "(Ghostzapper) is a top-class racehorse under the conditions of today; how he stacks up against this or that great of the past is some(thing) that you can argue until the cows come home."
Respectfully..."top-class"...an understatement maybe? If Ghostzapper is "top-class" what are horses such as Roses in May? I suggest that Ghostzapper crushes "top-class" horses...that's what separates him.
Who might you offer as more dominant and more versatile (at 6f...and 1 mile...and 1 1/4 miles) than Ghostzapper?
Best to you.
Respectfully