Hi FOS
I agree that he's definitely high risk at that price ($200k), especially for dirt. Not so expensive down here. There are plenty of examples of horses not doing it down here after they perform in Europe though. (both being turf) This guy with do it top and bottom!!
Giant's Causeway stud fee boost
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
hi Mike
Based on how Giant's Causeway seems to be defining himself...do you agree that he seems to be a perfect fit for downunder? It'll be interesting to see what Coolmore does with his southern hemisphere stud fee.
Are any of the Australian racecourses/tracks Dirt...or is Turf (and/or possibly artificial) the only surface(s) available for racing?
How's your GC filly coming along...are you pleased how she's progressing?
Best to you.
Respectfully
Based on how Giant's Causeway seems to be defining himself...do you agree that he seems to be a perfect fit for downunder? It'll be interesting to see what Coolmore does with his southern hemisphere stud fee.
Are any of the Australian racecourses/tracks Dirt...or is Turf (and/or possibly artificial) the only surface(s) available for racing?
How's your GC filly coming along...are you pleased how she's progressing?
Best to you.
Respectfully
Hi FOS
All the tracks here are turf apart from a couple of country tracks which have no influence on racing overall.
On the face of it GC has to do it on our going but it's happened before that they have done well in Europe but not here so the proof will be when they race here.
My filly is progressing well. She is not overly large but she is a first foal. She's very strong. I've only just weaned her recently and she is typical of the breed in that she has a mind of her own and one must be careful with her. She learns quickly also. Apparently they come in all sizes which may or may not be a good thing.
One thing that I'm certain of is that they will be more suitable to our conditions than Fupegs.
Giant's Causeway is $Aus77K for this season coming. He would need to do big things this season to warrent any movement on that. Redoute's Choice is flavour of the year here and he would have to knock him off his perch together with Encosta de Lago. Redoute's Choice stands at $220K this season and Encosta at $130K. Redoute's got 14 stakes winners in his second crop, from memory. His second crop is this season which has not finished yet!! His 3yo's have not contributed though. (1 I think)
What do you think of Lion Heart's chances?
All the tracks here are turf apart from a couple of country tracks which have no influence on racing overall.
On the face of it GC has to do it on our going but it's happened before that they have done well in Europe but not here so the proof will be when they race here.
My filly is progressing well. She is not overly large but she is a first foal. She's very strong. I've only just weaned her recently and she is typical of the breed in that she has a mind of her own and one must be careful with her. She learns quickly also. Apparently they come in all sizes which may or may not be a good thing.
One thing that I'm certain of is that they will be more suitable to our conditions than Fupegs.
Giant's Causeway is $Aus77K for this season coming. He would need to do big things this season to warrent any movement on that. Redoute's Choice is flavour of the year here and he would have to knock him off his perch together with Encosta de Lago. Redoute's Choice stands at $220K this season and Encosta at $130K. Redoute's got 14 stakes winners in his second crop, from memory. His second crop is this season which has not finished yet!! His 3yo's have not contributed though. (1 I think)
What do you think of Lion Heart's chances?
Hi all,
FOS, many months ago you made some points about Giant's Causeway's conformation that you felt wouldn't be compatible with wide spread success in North America. At that time I said that I wasn't ready to call him a failure. I've now seen several of his foals run on the dirt and feel that your assesment of them on dirt showed excellent insight. They have shown greater ability on the turf and he may prove to be a top sire for that surface, but I don't believe that we'll see a willingness on the part of top North American breeders to continue sending their best mares to a stallion who can't get them NA classic contenders, especially at a fee level where there are several others who can.
KAL, Giant's Causeway went out to stud at $135k, fell to $100k, then $75k and now a steady increase to the current $200k. The bottom line is always weather you can make a profit breeding to a stallion. I don't believe that breeder's who paid $150k or more (thie year) will be in favorable positions in 2 years when they are selling the foals from their in-foal mares.
Freud was well handled by Becky Thomas' Lakland North operation (the same folks who made Precise End last year). I've encountered several people who decided to breed to Freud based on solid numbers for some of his 2yos in training. Sales prices of 2yos is not a reliable harbinger for future success in the sales. Signal Tap sold a 2yo for $360k (Bensonhurst's Best) and was gone from NY three years later with complete commercial collapse a year before (when the breedings based on BBest - and there were several) were selling into a $4k average).
I wish all who bred to Freud the best of luck, and his fee is low enough so that he doesn't need a lot of success to keep some value in his foals, but to anyone who will be selling yearlings, 2yo prices aren't very meaningful.
With luck, Freud will play St. Ballado to Giant's Causeway /Devil's Bag.
Regards,
Pete
FOS, many months ago you made some points about Giant's Causeway's conformation that you felt wouldn't be compatible with wide spread success in North America. At that time I said that I wasn't ready to call him a failure. I've now seen several of his foals run on the dirt and feel that your assesment of them on dirt showed excellent insight. They have shown greater ability on the turf and he may prove to be a top sire for that surface, but I don't believe that we'll see a willingness on the part of top North American breeders to continue sending their best mares to a stallion who can't get them NA classic contenders, especially at a fee level where there are several others who can.
KAL, Giant's Causeway went out to stud at $135k, fell to $100k, then $75k and now a steady increase to the current $200k. The bottom line is always weather you can make a profit breeding to a stallion. I don't believe that breeder's who paid $150k or more (thie year) will be in favorable positions in 2 years when they are selling the foals from their in-foal mares.
Freud was well handled by Becky Thomas' Lakland North operation (the same folks who made Precise End last year). I've encountered several people who decided to breed to Freud based on solid numbers for some of his 2yos in training. Sales prices of 2yos is not a reliable harbinger for future success in the sales. Signal Tap sold a 2yo for $360k (Bensonhurst's Best) and was gone from NY three years later with complete commercial collapse a year before (when the breedings based on BBest - and there were several) were selling into a $4k average).
I wish all who bred to Freud the best of luck, and his fee is low enough so that he doesn't need a lot of success to keep some value in his foals, but to anyone who will be selling yearlings, 2yo prices aren't very meaningful.
With luck, Freud will play St. Ballado to Giant's Causeway /Devil's Bag.
Regards,
Pete
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Georgerz
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Added another Classic to the list
Shamardal (by Giant's Causeway) won the French Derby today. That makes three classics and two classic winners for the first crop of Giant's Causeway. That's a feat not too common.
Walmac was listing Roar of the Tiger full in Florida. Walmac's deal for out of state foals which are registered in a state bred program is 30% off (I think) and they offer that on almost all of their lower priced stallions. I actually bred a mare to Tumblebrutus and the owner of the boarding farm I use found him to be quite attractive. My question is will Coolmore have to eat crow and drop Giant's Causeway's fee for next season to fill his book given his astounding lack of success with dirt runners or will they handle it in an under the table fashion? He certainly is getting the big ones in Europe, but is that enough to keep his stud fee inflated here.
I very much doubt that Coolmore will even consider dropping Giant's Causeway's stud fee for next year. He's been a huge success in europe and even if the American breeders don't flock to him based on his record here, Coolmore can fill his book with their own mares.
What I wonder is at what point might they consider moving him back to stand at stud in Ireland again?
What I wonder is at what point might they consider moving him back to stand at stud in Ireland again?
Hi LSB,
I completely agree.
If this was November I believe Ashford would raise Giant's Causeway to $250k to position as a less expensive alternative to Kingmambo (I'm laffin' but not kidding) or all the way to $300k to challenge him directly.
If support slips here in the States slip, look for Giant's Causeway to be moved to the UK in anticpation of suceeding Sadler's Wells, rather than trying to augment his book from their own mares. They'll still breed their own mares to him relentlessly but the Europeans have a lot more reason to like GC than we (NA) might.
If Giant's Causeway was getting top dirt runners, you would see Ashford start to position him to challenge to succeed Storm Cat. Not likely, but I'm sure that was their intention by bringing him here. They've not given up on this yet (I believe) and will keep him here at least 1-2 more years.
It's not a matter of whether he was bound to get some good horses given his book quality and quantity - it's the simple fact that he proved that he can get a top class horses as evidenced by Shamardal and Maid's Causeway.
Ashford's not the only one spinning as Lane's End lists Kingmambo's progeny earnings from around the world - Japan included, $55 million to date. Bet you didn't know that Kingmambo topped $10 million in 2004?
It's a sales job and as long as the US breeder's feel that Giant's Causeway may get a champion I don't see his fee dropping - even if it's a turf champion.
Regards,
Pete
I completely agree.
If this was November I believe Ashford would raise Giant's Causeway to $250k to position as a less expensive alternative to Kingmambo (I'm laffin' but not kidding) or all the way to $300k to challenge him directly.
If support slips here in the States slip, look for Giant's Causeway to be moved to the UK in anticpation of suceeding Sadler's Wells, rather than trying to augment his book from their own mares. They'll still breed their own mares to him relentlessly but the Europeans have a lot more reason to like GC than we (NA) might.
If Giant's Causeway was getting top dirt runners, you would see Ashford start to position him to challenge to succeed Storm Cat. Not likely, but I'm sure that was their intention by bringing him here. They've not given up on this yet (I believe) and will keep him here at least 1-2 more years.
It's not a matter of whether he was bound to get some good horses given his book quality and quantity - it's the simple fact that he proved that he can get a top class horses as evidenced by Shamardal and Maid's Causeway.
Ashford's not the only one spinning as Lane's End lists Kingmambo's progeny earnings from around the world - Japan included, $55 million to date. Bet you didn't know that Kingmambo topped $10 million in 2004?
It's a sales job and as long as the US breeder's feel that Giant's Causeway may get a champion I don't see his fee dropping - even if it's a turf champion.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms