SHAMARDAL RETIRED

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louis finochio
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SHAMARDAL RETIRED

Postby louis finochio » Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:23 am

Shamaral has chipped a bone in his ankle and has been retired.

Shamardal was to meet Motivator in the Eclipse Stakes on the weekend.
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Postby louis finochio » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:39 am

Shamardal has 12 crosses of (Phalaris) and was raced on soft ground turf, thats a major reason Shamardal lasted so long, in todays time frame of 9 average starts lifetime.
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Postby halo » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:57 am

Lasted so long? Didnt he make just 7 starts??

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Postby Linda in TX » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:59 am

louis finochio wrote:Shamardal has 12 crosses of (Phalaris) and was raced on soft ground turf, thats a major reason Shamardal lasted so long


Yup, Shamardal had a lengthy career alrighty -- he made only four less starts than the recently retired, amazingly durable Ghostzapper who went to the post eleven times.

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Postby llbean » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:44 pm

Motivator would've crushed him anyway...

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Postby FOS » Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:31 pm

hi Linda in TX

You wrote "Yup, Shamardal had a lengthy career alrighty -- he made only four less starts than the recently retired, amazingly durable Ghostzapper who went to the post eleven times."

Ghostzapper was uniquely versatile...and was arguably one of the fastest horses on the planet earth (thru his retirement after his victory in the Metropolitan H at age 5, 2005)...whether going 6 furlongs...1 mile...or 1 1/4 miles.

The same CANNOT honestly be said for Shamardal.

Ghostzapper's brilliance and versatility is an extremely rare commodity...and I expect that his stud fee will reflect that when announced...

...many seem to guess that around $100,000 will be his initial stud fee...but even the vicinity of $150,000+- would not surprise me.

Respectfully

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Postby Linda in TX » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:04 am

FOS wrote:hi Linda in TX

Ghostzapper was uniquely versatile...and was arguably one of the fastest horses on the planet earth (thru his retirement after his victory in the Metropolitan H at age 5, 2005)...whether going 6 furlongs...1 mile...or 1 1/4 miles. The same CANNOT honestly be said for Shamardal.


I didn't compare their ability; only their "durability."

FOS wrote:Ghostzapper's brilliance and versatility is an extremely rare commodity...and I expect that his stud fee will reflect that when announced...many seem to guess that around $100,000 will be his initial stud fee...but even the vicinity of $150,000+- would not surprise me.


Why, I think you're right...! Now isn't that something...!?!? For no more than the cost of a new home in some vicinities, just about anyone can be the proud breeder of a foal sired by Wonder Horse Ghostzapper. And with a whole lota luck it might hold up long enough to make as many starts as, well, Shamadaral made....!

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Postby FOS » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:39 am

hi Linda in TX

Respectfully...even durability-wise, I suggest...not a valid comparison. As you know Ghostzapper had 4 more TOP CLASS...MONSTER starts than Shamardal did...you seem to make light of that fact...as if it's unimportant or insignificant...that's ridiculous. And Shamardal NEVER raced against older horses (he didn't stay sound-enough long-enough to be in a position to do that)...much less the BEST older horses as Ghostzapper did. And as you know Ghostzapper handily defeated (and often crushed) all comers as a normal course of events...regardless of the distance. Furthermore, Shamardal is done in June of his 3-yo year, whereas Ghostzapper proved his brilliance not only as a 3-yo and 4-yo (when he was Horse of the Year) but also into his 5-yo year...after demolishing a field in the G1 Metropolitan H (no small feat).

Regarding stud fees...Ghostzapper's versatility at the highest level...and MONSTER G1 winning performances at 6 furlongs...1 mile...and 1 1/4 miles...is (to a large degree) what separates him. I suggest he was a FREAK (in the most complimentary sense of the word)...and that will have a HUGE bearing on his stud fee.

Respectfully...anyone that compares the "cost of a new home" (as you did)...or tool shed...or whatever to a stud fee...is arguably not honestly evaluating a stallion's worth in this industry...today.

I suggest that anyone making such comparisons (as you have)...might best be served with a subscription to This Old House Magazine...instead of the Blood-Horse.

Good luck new-house hunting.

Respectfully

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Postby halo » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:48 am

Shamardal had 4 grade ones to his credit before Ghostzapper even ran in his first. Im sure the Europeans would argue that Shamardal had as high, if not higher class, starts than Ghostzapper.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the context of this thread. Its about soundness.

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shamardal

Postby BenB » Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:05 pm

As the only thing is about this subject, soundness. If I would have the amount of money needed for a covery from him, I still wouldn,t do that.
Or I would have a solid, rock hard, filly or mare from an female line with lots of average starts at any corner from it, than I might consider this.
Needed also a mare with lots of superior bone substance. Think first of his backproblems as a youngster and now this.
Arguable it is better to retire as an undefeated horse on turf, than as an beaten one as motivator will found out, thanks to oratorio.

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Postby llbean » Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:18 pm

halo wrote:Shamardal had 4 grade ones to his credit before Ghostzapper even ran in his first.


In what way is that relevant? You're deliberatly ignoring the entire careers of the two horses to produce a invalid comparision that ignores too much to mean anything.

When you ignore relevant information (aka, Ghostzapper's career after June of his 3YO Year) you create a highly deceptive impression and thus this sort of thing should be avoided...

-llbean

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Postby horsenuts » Sat Jul 02, 2005 12:44 pm

llbean wrote:
halo wrote:Shamardal had 4 grade ones to his credit before Ghostzapper even ran in his first.


In what way is that relevant? You're deliberatly ignoring the entire careers of the two horses to produce a invalid comparision that ignores too much to mean anything.

When you ignore relevant information (aka, Ghostzapper's career after June of his 3YO Year) you create a highly deceptive impression and thus this sort of thing should be avoided...

-llbean


Commercial breeders/sellers/buyers all look for studs that were precosious 2 year olds something GZ wasn't. Also, GZ was a bit of a "come from behind sprinter" something that also makes breeders a bit leary. In addition, GZ never displayed brilliance until his last start as a 3 year old in the Vosburgh, a race in which he was coming off a 3rd place finish in the King's Bishop at Saratoga where he failed to "get up" in time. He obviously excelled at Belmont much the way Sightseek did.


Nonetheless, GZ will be hyped like few before as a stallion prospect so this should make up for any shortcomings in the stud fee arena. But if his foals are somewhat narrow bodied as GZ himself was/is they may not be as well received as some might think in the sales arena. Time will tell.

For myself when it comes to studs I always take substance(proven stallion) over hype(unkown stud). Far to many great runners proved to be mediocre to downright poor stallions i.e Citation/Bid/Sec. etc.

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Postby halo » Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:38 pm

[quote="llbean"][quote="halo"]Shamardal had 4 grade ones to his credit before Ghostzapper even ran in his first.
[/quote]

In what way is that relevant? You're deliberatly ignoring the entire careers of the two horses to produce a invalid comparision that ignores too much to mean anything.

When you ignore relevant information (aka, Ghostzapper's career after June of his 3YO Year) you create a highly deceptive impression and thus this sort of thing should be avoided...

-llbean[/quote]

Its entirely relevant to the point of this thread. Which is soundness. Even tho Shamardal only ran 7 races, they were all as a 2 year old and early 3 year old, so he at least had some semblance of continuity in a racing career, and was able to stand early training. Ghostzapper ran twice as a 2 year old, late in the year, and didnt get back to the races til mid summer of his 3 year old career. He ran only 4 times at 3, so this does not exactly give the impression of a horse that could stand training. Shamardal had won 5 stakes races in his career before Ghostzapper had even gotten back to the races at 3 at the same time in his career, much less even run in a stakes race.

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Postby Bumblebee » Sat Jul 02, 2005 1:48 pm

The problem that Shamardal has (a chip in his ankle I believe), he could come back. It is not a career ending injury as such.
That he is off to a career at stud is because he has achieved so much and according to Godolphin he has proved enough.
I am a big fan of the Godolphin operation because they usually do not retire their horses prematurely, and I can forgive them for this one. I can understand that they want to leave it the way it is now, than to come back with a horse that might only be a shadow of his former self. If he had stayed sound, I am sure we would have seen him again next year.

my small edit: I also want to add that Motivator getting beat won't do him any harm either.

Whether I would breed to him is another matter. If breeding to race I repeat that I think Fantastic Light and Daylami are two of my star stallions, simply because of the level they raced at for a number of years. Can I just add that I think that especially Daylami has grown into a gorgeous stallion.

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Postby Linda in TX » Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:46 pm

Bumblebee wrote:The problem that Shamardal has (a chip in his ankle I believe), he could come back. It is not a career ending injury as such.


According to reports, Shamardal sustained a career ending fetlock fracture.