Woodman
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JCBloodstock
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:19 pm
- Location: Iowa
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I'd breed to him - what's left in the tank problem to me is non-existent.I believe Fusaichi was conceived when Mr. P was 26.Woodman is the same age as Storm Cat - I really think what hurt Woodman is the sheer numbers of the product they were putting on the ground-they got away from quality and went for the buck with numbers and he still had good results even with lesser quality(Should be a lesson for these Kentucky Stallions now but I've found the buck rules today and not quality except for Claiborne and Pin Oak) - it seems like 98 or 99 he had like 73 yearlings sell at Keeneland - I'm not sure but I think he's topped at over 100 Stakes Winners now and I think there's probably more value with him now then there was 7 or 8 years ago and how can you not like a horse that has sired 100 plus Stakes Winners.
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Coquinerie
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I agree with JC. Im sure you can still get a real nice winner out of Woodman. I've always liked him in the broodmare sire position and I truly think his daughters will produce well. I would breed to him just in hopes of getting a filly. I think you'd be able to get to him a discounted price if you had a nice mare.
The mare who would be seriously overbred is Excessive Drive. The only faint reason we were even considering it is that I was told there were deals to be had and she has a very nice filly by a son of Woodman (Avatar). It seems if you want Woodman blood it is best to go direct to the source, but since she is in foal on a really late cover this year its all academic anyway 
What she really needs is a stallion with a kids horse personality cause the avatar filly has little horns right behind her ears.
What she really needs is a stallion with a kids horse personality cause the avatar filly has little horns right behind her ears.
Hi Austique,
I agree with JC. When a sire's numbers start to tail off there's often a decline in the quality of book and the care in selection of mares. Not that Ashford was ever excessively picky if you had cash. Woodman's been falling from favor for several years now.
Woodman's never been a top sire by the numbers. His appeal has been that he can get a special horse, like Hector Protector, Hansel, etc.,
One of the main reasons that a stallions book quality will decline is illustrated by Woodman, who despite some real success, on a foal by foal basis, has been a disappointment to many who bred to him (especially at $50k - $75k), with only 7% SW and not enough quality winners otherwise. That means that most of 13 out of 14 didn't achieve their goals. Dissatisfied customers?
Woodman's sons have been disappointing. I hope your Avatar bucks that trend. If you can get your mare to Woodman you might do well. Keep in mind though that Woodman's greatest success were with top quality mares that he used to get.
Good luck,
Pete
I agree with JC. When a sire's numbers start to tail off there's often a decline in the quality of book and the care in selection of mares. Not that Ashford was ever excessively picky if you had cash. Woodman's been falling from favor for several years now.
Woodman's never been a top sire by the numbers. His appeal has been that he can get a special horse, like Hector Protector, Hansel, etc.,
One of the main reasons that a stallions book quality will decline is illustrated by Woodman, who despite some real success, on a foal by foal basis, has been a disappointment to many who bred to him (especially at $50k - $75k), with only 7% SW and not enough quality winners otherwise. That means that most of 13 out of 14 didn't achieve their goals. Dissatisfied customers?
Woodman's sons have been disappointing. I hope your Avatar bucks that trend. If you can get your mare to Woodman you might do well. Keep in mind though that Woodman's greatest success were with top quality mares that he used to get.
Good luck,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
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wilf
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Location: Ocala, Florida.
The best horse that I ever put a saddle on was by Woodman which in the great scheme of things means nothing but for the fact that I claimed him as a beat-up 6yr old in Arizona and 5 months later he ran the 2nd fastest mile and a half ever in Canada; 2 29.2 .......... Norcliffe ran 2 29.1 at Woodbine earlier.I was lucky enough to be at Newmarket to see him run in the Dewhurst even though he was over-the-top by then.He was a victim of shameless greed when they started shuttling him to Australia as an older horse to do double duty which I thought was a disgraceful move, given the prosperity that he had spread to his shareholders already.He may or may not get a few more nice horses but he has done enough in my eyes.
Woodman was the sire of the exceptional horse Hawk Wing (out of a Val de l'Orne/Nijinsky mare)... I think apart from his performance he's a most correct horse conformationally and is very athletic.
As well as pure performance, doesn't very good conformation help as a key part of keeping a horse racing long enough to be a champion...? I breed event horses and one of the keys to breeding top horses is breeding from conformationally correct horses otherwise they don't stand the training and never amount to anything regardless of how good they look on paper...
Julia
http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk
Future Sport Horses - Excellence in Event Horse Breeding
As well as pure performance, doesn't very good conformation help as a key part of keeping a horse racing long enough to be a champion...? I breed event horses and one of the keys to breeding top horses is breeding from conformationally correct horses otherwise they don't stand the training and never amount to anything regardless of how good they look on paper...
Julia
http://www.futuresporthorses.co.uk
Future Sport Horses - Excellence in Event Horse Breeding
hi Pete...hi austique...hi eventmad
Pete wrote "Woodman's never been a top sire by the numbers. His appeal has been that he can get a special horse, like Hector Protector, Hansel, etc."
Bull's-eye...
...Bosra Sham and Timber Country might be worth inclusion onto that "special horse" list along with Hawk Wing (as eventmad [Julia] suggested), and possibly some others...
...but as Pete alluded to...Woodman's "numbers" arguably leave a lot to be desired (and let's not forget his opportunities...he's got approx 1700 named foals to his credit...hmmm)...and other than Hawk Wing (foal of '99)...many (if not most) of his top horses are very old news.
If I might throw in my two cents...I suggest that All Things Considered (including his level of success in recent years) it might be fair to say that at his current advertised stud fee of $20,000 Live...Woodman's probably very high risk (and arguably of questionable value), regardless whether the sales ring or the race track is the destination.
Right now...at US$20k Live, Woodman's a Can't-Recommend stallion, as far as I'm concerned. A better result (tongue in cheek) might be accomplished by donating the $20k to a good cause or charity...or taking a nice vacation.
Austique...at a fraction of his advertised stud fee he might make sense for you (if you're convinced that you've got just the right mare for him)...but for $20k...I say look elsewhere.
Respectfully
Pete wrote "Woodman's never been a top sire by the numbers. His appeal has been that he can get a special horse, like Hector Protector, Hansel, etc."
Bull's-eye...
...Bosra Sham and Timber Country might be worth inclusion onto that "special horse" list along with Hawk Wing (as eventmad [Julia] suggested), and possibly some others...
...but as Pete alluded to...Woodman's "numbers" arguably leave a lot to be desired (and let's not forget his opportunities...he's got approx 1700 named foals to his credit...hmmm)...and other than Hawk Wing (foal of '99)...many (if not most) of his top horses are very old news.
If I might throw in my two cents...I suggest that All Things Considered (including his level of success in recent years) it might be fair to say that at his current advertised stud fee of $20,000 Live...Woodman's probably very high risk (and arguably of questionable value), regardless whether the sales ring or the race track is the destination.
Right now...at US$20k Live, Woodman's a Can't-Recommend stallion, as far as I'm concerned. A better result (tongue in cheek) might be accomplished by donating the $20k to a good cause or charity...or taking a nice vacation.
Austique...at a fraction of his advertised stud fee he might make sense for you (if you're convinced that you've got just the right mare for him)...but for $20k...I say look elsewhere.
Respectfully
FOS,
Your 2 cents always appreciated and definitely heeded in this case as I am looking elsewhere. When I really got to breaking down his numbers and took into consideration his age, I was like "Uh, no". I'm also not a super huge fan of Coolmore's McDonald's style of stallion management (1 billion served and counting). I mean geez guys even Wilt Chamberlin took a break once and while
Your 2 cents always appreciated and definitely heeded in this case as I am looking elsewhere. When I really got to breaking down his numbers and took into consideration his age, I was like "Uh, no". I'm also not a super huge fan of Coolmore's McDonald's style of stallion management (1 billion served and counting). I mean geez guys even Wilt Chamberlin took a break once and while
...You wrote...
