Kincsem picture?

[Mahubah]

Thanks, Jorge. Lots of good links from this site.

[Mahubah]

Mahubah,

I believe you are correct. Major Hartmann Pauly of Santa Barbara was a European immigrant who worshipped Kincsem and her kin. He supplied the photo of her to the CTBA. I haven't read that issue (the 25th Golden Anniversary of the CTBA) for a number of years, but as I recall Major Pauly had bred a filly tracing to Kincsem, who I believe was sired by *Toulouse Lautrec (a Tesio bred imported by Rex Ellsworth). From there, I don't know what happened to the family as Maj. Pauly (the full time bloodstock advisor to Eleanora Sears) died not too many years later.

If you contact Vivian at the CTBA (800-573-CTBA) and ask her to look in the June, 1962 issue of the TB of California I believe she will find this photo. You may be able to talk her into sending you a copy of it.

Michael -- just wanted you to know that I did call Vivian and she was very helpful. Thanks much for the hint.

[Jorge]

Apropos KINCSEM's records, I would like to know if there is more written material on her alledged 39th victory, which allegedly was declared a dead heat. Was she coming from behind or was she running out of gas when the line surprised both? Who was the other rival? Did she perhaps lost from a scientific telemetrical calculus but the result was too embarracing?
Would like to read on these angles.

Thanks, B.

[Mahubah]

The best that I have been able to gather is that she caught her rival on the line. She was coming off her victories in the Goodwood Cup and Grand Prix de Deauville and may for once have been a bit the worse for wear for shipping -- she was a very good traveler by rail, but the double trip across the English Channel's choppy waters would have been pretty tough. (Of course, given her habit of lagging at the post, she may have just misjudged and cut it a bit too fine.) Anyway, she won the runoff quite handily to keep her unbeaten status intact.

[DianaC7]

Does anyone know if there are any English-translated books on Kincsem? If so, what are the titles and authors?

[parlo]

In the great book „Thoroughbred breeding of the world“ (triple-lingual: English – French - German; published by Podzun Verlag, edited by Direktorium für Vollblutzucht und Rennen, Cologne Germany 1970) there is an article on Kincsem by the German racing-journalist Harald Siemen. He said (page 329):

“… Now she was to win the Grosser Preis von Baden for the second time. As a result of her many exhausting journeys and the heavy going she almost lost the race. Graf Henckel’s horse, Prince Giles I, who went to the start in perfect condition, raced her to a dead heat, which was really the fault of Kincsem’s jockey, E. Madden, who, certain of the filly’s winning, held her back well before the finishing-post. An hour later was the decisive race [run off] in which Kincsem easily beat her opponent by a clear five lengths. …”

[vineyridge]

There's a very nice article on her on the TB Heritage website. She really was a marvel, and it's to be hoped that her blood lives on both here and in Europe.

[parlo]

Kincsem is still alive in female tap-root of broodmares owned and bred by Röttgen Stud (near Cologne, Germany) like Well Known, Well Proved, Wondrous Pearl, Wellesiena, Western Angel and Western Pride. Some of these mares won classic races in Germany. German G1-winners like Well Made and Wauthi come from this line as well. Many of the off-springs of this female line do well as 2yo.

And in other countries?

[Bettina]

Hallo,
tere was a groupwinner this season in England tracing to Kincsem via her daughter Budagyönge, her name is Tarfah (by Kingmambo). It's the same damline as Polygamy (by Reform) won English Oaks, 2. 1000 Guineas

Kinscem's unraced son Talpra Magyar Tokio is the sire of Geständnis, her name you will see in the damline of Ungaro. Interestingly Unwetter his granddam showa linebreeding to Kincsem's offspring and it's another family developed by the Röttgen Stud as Parlo already mentioned.

Recently I came across another instance of Talpra Magyar, he is the sire of Hut-Ab, her line still exists, but haven't produced great winners for some time. the last descent I could trace was Hexi Sexi (by Goofalik). Interestingly Ungaro is by Goofalik, too.

Her daughter Budagyongye won the German Derby in 1885 and her HB Kincs-Or died a few days before he could run in the same race (1889)

I spot descents of Kincsem several times especially in East European peds.

Regards, Bettina

[solozzo]

Kinscem's family was introduced into Polish breeding. In last year Wolarz(POL) by Vilnius(POL) – Wega(POL) by Szafir(GB) won Grand Prix Warsaw (13f) in 1995.