Mare is just under 15.1. She's been bred to a small stud, and the foal is tiny.
Correct, but tiny.
I'd think a racer would do best if at least 15.3 to 16hs.
What are the odds that she would constantly throw small foals that would become under 16h horses?
I'm going to buy her anyway, even if it's just for a riding horse. She's got beautiful bone, is well proportioned, and has a temperament to die for. Not a mean bone in her body. Will do anything to please humans.
Small mare =s small foals?
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vineyridge
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Small mare =s small foals?
Thread Killer Extraordinaire
hi vineyridge
Is the "tiny" (your word) foal you reference the mare's first foal?
If so...I suggest that your 15-1HH mare bred to a "small stud" (your words) had a probability of producing a small one (or even tiny as you describe)...at least on the first go around.
As a matter of interest...how tall was the stallion?
Respectfully
Is the "tiny" (your word) foal you reference the mare's first foal?
If so...I suggest that your 15-1HH mare bred to a "small stud" (your words) had a probability of producing a small one (or even tiny as you describe)...at least on the first go around.
As a matter of interest...how tall was the stallion?
Respectfully
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vineyridge
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2nd foal
Stud is no bigger than 15.3, and I'd bet he's closer to 15.2. We sticked the mare; we did not stick the stud. I have a rough idea of height, because I'm 5'6", which is 16.2h. If I stand next to a horse, I can pretty well estimate height by what part of my face is at wither level. I could barely see over the withers of the stud, so I'm estimating 15.3 max.
Just call me the human measuring stick.
Foal is 4 months old and probably 10.2 . Of his age group, he's by far the smallest in the TB foal herd.
Stud is no bigger than 15.3, and I'd bet he's closer to 15.2. We sticked the mare; we did not stick the stud. I have a rough idea of height, because I'm 5'6", which is 16.2h. If I stand next to a horse, I can pretty well estimate height by what part of my face is at wither level. I could barely see over the withers of the stud, so I'm estimating 15.3 max.
Just call me the human measuring stick.
Foal is 4 months old and probably 10.2 . Of his age group, he's by far the smallest in the TB foal herd.
Thread Killer Extraordinaire
hi vineyridge
Do you plan on breeding her to a really BIG and TALL guy in 2006?
Might be worth the shot if you're looking for more foal than you've been delivered thus far. If that's the case it might be wise to consider the potential difficulties and/or risks that your 15-1HH mare might be confronted with at foaling time.
Respectfully
Do you plan on breeding her to a really BIG and TALL guy in 2006?
Might be worth the shot if you're looking for more foal than you've been delivered thus far. If that's the case it might be wise to consider the potential difficulties and/or risks that your 15-1HH mare might be confronted with at foaling time.
Respectfully
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vineyridge
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I'd be happy with anything around 16h. Truly I'm not into huge horses, and a huge stud would not do with her size.
You're right about foaling difficulties and foal difficulties from a big foal living in a too small womb. I'm just wondering if a 15.1 mare would be likely to produce a 16h foal from a 16.2 stud, without birthing difficulties.
You're right about foaling difficulties and foal difficulties from a big foal living in a too small womb. I'm just wondering if a 15.1 mare would be likely to produce a 16h foal from a 16.2 stud, without birthing difficulties.
Thread Killer Extraordinaire
I have a 14'2 (stretching 14'3) mare who produced a 16'1+ foal by Spec Bid and a nice big yearling by a 16'2 stallion who I expect to mature about 16+ himself. She is a little little mare but has no problems with foaling and is back infoal to the 16'2 stud now. I have 2 studs over 17h but do think they may be too much for her since she does produce a BIG foal.
I have been told that a mare will not produce a foal larger than she can handle no matter how big the stud is.
I have been told that a mare will not produce a foal larger than she can handle no matter how big the stud is.
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vineyridge
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I wouldn't breed her to a 'huge' stallion, because you don't want something is awkward and something to big for her. I don't believe horses will adjust foal size to their pelvis, there can be alot of pregnancy issues some of which are because of room and placement.
Her foals, probably won't be too large anyways, and it depends on what kind of racehorses you are looking for. A small horse with alot of heart, a nice stride and a good head is better then a crooked, awkward, not-so-smart 17h horse.
Personally, if i was to breed I wouldn't continue to breed her if she has consistent small foals of no quality, and there isn't much of a market for small horses, and often times they are beaten by bigger horses.
Her foals, probably won't be too large anyways, and it depends on what kind of racehorses you are looking for. A small horse with alot of heart, a nice stride and a good head is better then a crooked, awkward, not-so-smart 17h horse.
Personally, if i was to breed I wouldn't continue to breed her if she has consistent small foals of no quality, and there isn't much of a market for small horses, and often times they are beaten by bigger horses.
These are studies which confirm what I said before:
From, "The Horse" Magazine,
January 1999
Fetal Development and Foal Growth
By Les Sellnow
<<...Back to fetal development. The size of the fetus at birth is often determined more by the mare's uterine capacity than by genetics, although genetics do kick in once the foal has been born.
In one bit of research at Colorado State University, a Shetland pony mare was inseminated with semen from a draft horse stallion. The pony mare delivered a small foal during a normal birth, but the foal soon outgrew it's mother once it was on the ground and nursing.
Two papers presented at the International Symposium on Equine
Reproduction held in South Africa in July also indicated that the mare exerts considerable influence on the size of the growing fetus. ...
...The second study was carried out by researchers in England who studied the influence of maternal size on fetal and post-natal
development in the horse. They reported that, "Maternal size
significantly affects fetal growth, presumably by means of limiting the area of uterine endometrium available for attachment of the diffuse epitheliochorial placenta."
Once the foal is born, genetics and nourishment are highly influential in growth and development. A foal which has the genetics for large size can do considerable catching up in the first few months of life, particularly if it receives proper nourishment and has been properly nourished while in the uterus. ....>>
The major issue can be improper pelvic confirmation which can cause vaginal rectal tears. As for confirmation issues being caused by uterine size, most confirmational problems are (a) inherited, (b)due to poor nutrition, or (c) occur due to the mare carrying the foal in an odd manner and can happen regardless of uterine size. Keep in mind that Draft/TB crosses are quite popular in hunter circles. The bias against smaller horses is one of my pet peeves as most of it is based on old wives tales instead of actual science
From, "The Horse" Magazine,
January 1999
Fetal Development and Foal Growth
By Les Sellnow
<<...Back to fetal development. The size of the fetus at birth is often determined more by the mare's uterine capacity than by genetics, although genetics do kick in once the foal has been born.
In one bit of research at Colorado State University, a Shetland pony mare was inseminated with semen from a draft horse stallion. The pony mare delivered a small foal during a normal birth, but the foal soon outgrew it's mother once it was on the ground and nursing.
Two papers presented at the International Symposium on Equine
Reproduction held in South Africa in July also indicated that the mare exerts considerable influence on the size of the growing fetus. ...
...The second study was carried out by researchers in England who studied the influence of maternal size on fetal and post-natal
development in the horse. They reported that, "Maternal size
significantly affects fetal growth, presumably by means of limiting the area of uterine endometrium available for attachment of the diffuse epitheliochorial placenta."
Once the foal is born, genetics and nourishment are highly influential in growth and development. A foal which has the genetics for large size can do considerable catching up in the first few months of life, particularly if it receives proper nourishment and has been properly nourished while in the uterus. ....>>
The major issue can be improper pelvic confirmation which can cause vaginal rectal tears. As for confirmation issues being caused by uterine size, most confirmational problems are (a) inherited, (b)due to poor nutrition, or (c) occur due to the mare carrying the foal in an odd manner and can happen regardless of uterine size. Keep in mind that Draft/TB crosses are quite popular in hunter circles. The bias against smaller horses is one of my pet peeves as most of it is based on old wives tales instead of actual science
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
I have a smaller French Deputy mare (15.2) expecting her first foal in April 06. When breeding her one of my stallion criteria is he had to be a bit bigger in size. I took her to a 16.1 hand son of Danehill. She has very good conformation and exellent bone. She is very well fed and looked after so I'm hoping to have a decent foal. As in the post above, there shouldn't be too many problems with foaling in the mare is in foal to big horse. They did a study with shetland pony mares bred to shire horses and found no more irregular foalings than in normal circumstances. A situation that could make foaling difficult for any mare is her hip structure. Too close together and foaling will be difficult no matter what size the foal is.
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Maureen
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I have a nice compact 15.1 mare whose last foal by New Regime (who is not a big horse) weighed in at 135 lbs at birth. He's now a 3 y.o., racing, who probably stands at 15.2h. For the size he was at birth, I can't quite believe how "short" he has remained. The same mare was also bred to a 17h stallion and that filly was what I would consider a "normal" size when she arrived. This gal is now a 6 y.o. and stands at least 16.2h. The mare has never had foaling problems, usually waits till I turn my back and pops them out!
As long as your mare is well-conformed, you shouldn't experience any foaling problems with a larger stud.
As long as your mare is well-conformed, you shouldn't experience any foaling problems with a larger stud.
Maureen wrote:. The mare has never had foaling problems, usually waits till I turn my back and pops them out!
As long as your mare is well-conformed, you shouldn't experience any foaling problems with a larger stud.
Maureen isnt that how they always do it? You freeze waiting for them to foal, turn around for a second to get a cup of tea and when you turn around again...there is the foal!
Vineyridge was the tiny foal the first foal....you have to keep in mind that 1st foals tend to be smaller than subsequent foals.
I like the smaller horses myself at the track as long as they have heart they can win just as much as the big guys.
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Maureen
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Gerry wrote:[I like the smaller horses myself at the track as long as they have heart they can win just as much as the big guys.[/quote]
I totally agree with you on this one. The little mare that I am referring to was a good little race horse for me. She had the heart to get the job done. She was terrible to handle on non-race days, but when the track vet came around on race morning, she knew what was up and you couldn't ask for a more professional horse. She was tough, never had any soundness problems, which I attribute to her small stature, and very rarely finished out of the money. When we couldn't find a race against the girls, she ran with the boys and did well. She loved to race, and raced every week for six months with only one week off -that she absolutely hated. I think she raced like this for three years straight and retired sound of mind and body. There is something to be said about smaller!
I totally agree with you on this one. The little mare that I am referring to was a good little race horse for me. She had the heart to get the job done. She was terrible to handle on non-race days, but when the track vet came around on race morning, she knew what was up and you couldn't ask for a more professional horse. She was tough, never had any soundness problems, which I attribute to her small stature, and very rarely finished out of the money. When we couldn't find a race against the girls, she ran with the boys and did well. She loved to race, and raced every week for six months with only one week off -that she absolutely hated. I think she raced like this for three years straight and retired sound of mind and body. There is something to be said about smaller!