Lost in the Fog article

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Heidilady
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Lost in the Fog article

Postby Heidilady » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:51 pm

http://www.drf.com/news/article/70044.html

Ah so methinks they'll not only stretch him out but try turf? Seriously if Alex ever gets his act together and sets hoof on the track again I smell a matchup :D Apparently Lost in the Fog's body is maturing such that this should be a fun season for him coming up.

I guess the real excuse was exhaustion due to one to many frequent flyer miles and then he ends up in the detention barn and that's the last straw. Apparently they got signs he wasn't his usual self personality-wise but just hoped it was nothing. Oh well. I just don't think his finish was due to lack of talent but ya gotta bring it on the day or people will just be shaking their heads. Well there's always next year. Go get'em Foggy!

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Lost in the Fog

Postby George William Smith » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:02 am

Check the form and you'll see he missed a fast work before the race that he had had before all the other races.

Yikes, that is truly a terrible article, having been with the horse myself at Belmont on Belmont Stakes day.

The old axiom exists, don't believe what you read and only half of what you see.

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Postby Heidilady » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:25 pm

Ahh..wow trying to spin things are they? Or just out and out making stuff up. Interesting.

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Re: Lost in the Fog

Postby HenriettaVIII » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:41 pm

George William Smith wrote:The old axiom exists, don't believe what you read and only half of what you see.


And yet we are all reading this...interesting...

Anyways, what exactly was so terrible about that LITF article?

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Lost in the Fog

Postby George William Smith » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:50 pm

Agreed

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Postby HenriettaVIII » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:56 pm

When?

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Postby louis finochio » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:18 pm

As the late Hall of Fame trainer Charlie Whittingham said, you cant dance every dance.

These TB are not machines were you keep your foot on the gas pedal.

LIF came up empty because he was running on E, just as SJ did in the final furlong of the Belmont.

Hall of Fame trainers point their TB for designated races and have a fresh and fit TB to get the job done.

I have seen this training pattern over the years work to perfection.
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Postby FOS » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:12 am

hi guys

Lost In The Fog is clearly a TOP sprinter.

In the DRF article re: Lost In The Fog (referenced by Heidilady)...Mr Dodd is quoted as saying "He's changed a lot" "He was more of a sprinter type conformation-wise when he was a 2-year-old and earlier this year. You know - round, full quarters. Now he's getting more streamlined."

The article goes on and the author wrote "Karen Dodd, anticipating the question, was quick to say that she thinks Lost in the Fog will be a better middle-distance horse than a sprinter as he ages. "Got a turf foot, too," she noted."

"...Lost in the Fog will be a better middle-distance horse than a sprinter"...that comment (by Karen Dodd) surprises me. Seven furlongs is still considered a sprint (by many), although if that's what she refers to as middle distance...yes I expect that LITF might be successful there also...but "better" than we've seen...I find that difficult to even imagine. I say might because that extra furlong could prove to be an obstacle (for LITF) versus TOP competition. I have never sensed that LITF would be as dominant (as he's been) beyond six furlongs. I suggest that he has proven to be a brilliant six furlong sprint specialist...and might stretch it (under perfect circumstances) to seven furlongs.

If Karen Dodd is referencing middle distance as meaning a mile (or possibly even beyond)...consider this...

...Lost In The Fog's running style (although highly successful for him) seems to be somewhat one dimensional (try to go to the lead, then blow the competition away). Needless to say, he's explosive and his running style has proved to be highly successful for him....but have we seen or heard anything about Lost In The Fog (other than the comment that he is more "streamlined" now) that would support the contention that he would win over TOP competition, going one mile (or possibly even beyond) on the dirt or the turf.

Now that's not to say that the competition at some tracks (including his northern California home-base) might not be the kind that he could trounce...even going a mile...but I expect that he'd be stung versus TOP horses in a race like the (one mile) G1-Metropolitan H (for example).

I sense that Lost In The Fog is a pure sprinter...and he might sprint on the turf also...but why...what will that really do for him, even if he's successful at it? I suggest there's little or no upside (for him) to that venture...I say forget about it.

If Team Fog feels they have something to prove...I recommend (for starters) prove that he can beat TOP older sprinters going six furlongs on the dirt...if the urge is still there (after accomplishing that) to test the best at seven furlongs...go for it...maybe the G1-Carter...

...but if the urge is to test the waters at a mile (or beyond) versus TOP competition I say (Loud and Clear) BEWARE. I don't expect that Team Fog would be pleased with the outcome...

...although if he did pull off such a victory (going a mile or beyond on the dirt versus TOP competition) such an accomplishment would arguably enhance his value, possibly dramatically. The flip side is that if he fades (which if I had to guess right now, I'd have to say is what I'd expect)...hmmm. He might even be distanced...Ouch.

Lost In The Fog is a wonderful SPRINTER...and I look forward to seeing his 2006 season unfold. I hope that he is well managed and given the BEST opportunities to succeed at the HIGHEST level. If that includes going a mile or beyond..and/or racing on the turf...so be it...I'll be watching and pulling for him.

One thing's for sure...Lost In The Fog will give us everything he's got...he seems to be as honest as they come.

Respectfully

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Postby HenriettaVIII » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:50 am

FOS wrote:...Lost In The Fog's running style (although highly successful for him) seems to be somewhat one dimensional (try to go to the lead, then blow the competition away). Needless to say, he's explosive and his running style has proved to be highly successful for him....but have we seen or heard anything about Lost In The Fog (other than the comment that he is more "streamlined" now) that would support the contention that he would win over TOP competition, going one mile (or possibly even beyond) on the dirt or the turf.

Now that's not to say that the competition at some tracks (including his northern California home-base) might not be the kind that he could trounce...even going a mile...but I expect that he'd be stung versus TOP horses in a race like the (one mile) G1-Metropolitan H (for example).

I sense that Lost In The Fog is a pure sprinter...and he might sprint on the turf also...but why...what will that really do for him, even if he's successful at it? I suggest there's little or no upside (for him) to that venture...I say forget about it.

...although if he did pull off such a victory (going a mile or beyond on the dirt versus TOP competition) such an accomplishment would arguably enhance his value, possibly dramatically. The flip side is that if he fades (which if I had to guess right now, I'd have to say is what I'd expect)...hmmm. He might even be distanced...Ouch.


I don't know, there have been lots of horses with sprint speed that have successfully pulled off a switch to middle distances (8-9f) in the past. Bold Forbes, J.O. Tobin, Star de Naskra, Precisionist, Smile, Black Tie Affair, Cherokee Run, Housebuster, Smoke Glacken, and Orientate among others. Even Groovy ran close in the Wood Memorial. So it wouldn't come as a surprise to see LITF pull it off. Plus his pedigree suggests he should stay at least a mile. The Met Mile, on the other hand, is a difficult race to win and I wouldn't write off LITF beyond a mile if he were to tank in that race. Lots of other champions have bombed in that race.

I would think he's more likely to win at a middle distance against top horses than he would going 7 furlongs. 7f seems to be a difficult distance for sprinters to see out, particularly when they face top class routers. Seems like horses like Housebuster or Caller One always get tagged by horses like Unbridled, or Rock Hard Ten, Forego or Pleasant Tap at that distance.

As far as the grass experiment, there is a lot of money offered in Hong Kong in the late season for sprinters, so it probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Particularly since there isn't too many rich sprint stakes outside the BC here in the US...

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Postby louis finochio » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:48 pm

I have seen many sprinters over the years that were taught to relax early in a race and make that move the last three-eights and win.

The way LIF runs he would have to go back to the drawing board and be schooled to learn to relax and rate to make that late move to win at distances greater that 7 fur.

The late Native Diver trained by Buster Millerck was schooled to rate and relax early and ND raced till he was 7 yrs. old and won GR stakes up to his retirement.

If LIF handlers can accomplish the above he will have a chance to carry his speed over a distance of ground.

TB grow and change from 2 till 5 and the comment that LIF is longer and not as blocky QH type that he was before, is just that LIF has entered his 2nd. stage of growth.
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Postby FOS » Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:28 pm

hi HenriettaVIII...hi louis finochio

louis finochio wrote "The way (Lost In The Fog) runs he would have to go back to the drawing board and be schooled to learn to relax and rate to make that late move to win at distances greater that 7 fur."

louis has touched on a very important ingredient (as far as I'm concerned)...a racehorse's ability to relax...and how it might affect the prospects for LITF to win (over TOP competition) if he's asked to stretch out.

Regarding some of the racehorses you mentioned (and for what it's worth)...consider this...

...Champion Bold Forbes was a 3-year-old dual classic-winner (including a win in the Belmont)...he was NOT a one-dimensional 3-year-old sprinter that went on to win at a mile or beyond (as an older horse)...

...As for Housebuster (another which you referenced), he NEVER won a graded race short of 7-furlongs, even as a four-year-old when he was again named champion sprinter. Housebuster was hardly a one dimensional three-year-old Champion Sprinter...as evidenced by the fact that among his eight graded stakes wins as a three-year-old, four were at a mile (including the G1 Jerome).

...Champion and Horse of the Year Black Tie Affair NEVER won a graded race short of 7-furlongs (and among the eleven graded races he won...only two were at 7-furlongs and the others ranged from one mile to a mile and a quarter)...and for what it's worth he annexed his first and only graded stakes win as a three year-old, racing one mile (not sprinting). He was clearly NOT a sprinter that was stretched out (one glance at Black Tie Affair's race record confirms that).

...Even Champion Sprinter Cherokee Run NEVER won a graded race short of 7-furlongs until he was a four-year-old. Previous to that, the first three graded races he won were as a three-year-old...one was at 1 1/8 miles, one was at a mile, and the other was at seven furlongs. As a four-year-old Cherokee Run was shortened up, NOT stretched out (versus TOP company)...

...Smoke Glacken won a grand total of six graded races at two and three (he did NOT go on and race beyond age three)...five of his graded wins were at seven furlongs or less...the other one was at a mile (and it was a G3 at Oaklawn Park...obviously a meet that's run early in the year). Hardly a sprinter that stretched out...

...As for Champion Sprinter Orientate...he won five graded races...none until he was a four-year-old and NONE beyond seven-furlongs. For what it's worth...he won two stakes races as a three-year-old, the then non-graded Indiana Derby (contested at a mile and a sixteenth) and the non-graded Sir Beaufort (at a mile over the turf at Santa Anita)...clearly he did not become a champion caliber racehorse until his four-year-old year when he was shortened up (NOT stretched out) and was victorious in five graded races from 6-furlongs to 7-furlongs.

I don't know that any of the examples you offer closely parallels Lost In The Fog's career (thus far). He was a brilliant...explosive...blow 'em away 6-furlong sprint specialist (at age three). He's wonderful...he's special...but I sense that if racing at a mile (or beyond) against TOP racehorses is the goal of Team Fog...they might be in store for a rude awakening.

Regardless of the decisions that Team Fog makes (re: their brilliant colt)...I'll be watching closely and pulling for him.

Respectfully

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Postby HenriettaVIII » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:10 pm

Well the point really wasn't to find horses that had identical careers (up to this point) to LITF that then stretched out. Obviously, it would be a rarity.

I was just trying to identify horses with similar capabilities sprinting, that were able to carry their speed beyond 7 furlongs, to counter your suggestion that LITF is likely to pull up if he were to attempt two turns.

As for Black Tie Affair, you will note that most of his mile races came at Arlington and Belmont (around one turn) and that he competed in two BC Sprints prior to his bang up year in '91. In fact, he was for all intents and purposes a sprinter until after the '90 BC Sprint (where he was 3rd), when he was stretched out in his very next start in the 10 furlong Hawthorne Gold Cup, which he won. In '91, he was well spotted routing, catching paceless, second-tier fields in the midwest prior to his leisurely walk in the BC. How he won the older horse Eclipse (not to mention HOY) over In Excess or even Farma Way, is beyond me...

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Postby louis finochio » Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:34 am

Ancient Title by Gummo was a brillant sprinter who carried his speed over a distance of ground. Ancient Title won the following races is his career.

Won 7 fur San Carlos in 1:20.4
Won GR 2 San Vincente 7 fur
Won GR 2 Will Rogers 1 Mile
Won GR 2 San Fernando Stakes 8 an one-half fur
Won GR 1 Charles Strub Stakes 1mile an-one quarter
Won GR 1 Californian Stakes One mile an-one sixteenth
Won Gr 1 Hollywood Gold Cup 1 an-one quarter mile
Won GR 2 Whitney Handicap 9 fur

Both Native Diver and Ancient Title started their racing career's as sprinters.
Through both of their trainers and gallop boys these two TB were schooled to relax and rate to carry their speed over a distance of ground.
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