"Horses care more about things like getting the optional amount of inbreeding, avoiding incest, getting Complimetary Genes and getting an optional of Immune Genetics---------"
Horses don't have the mental capacity to care about thinls like that just like my dog does not have the capacity to learn calculas. Actually, I doubt that there are very many people that take those things into consideration when they choose a mate.
griff
PS: If horses are color blind, and I think they are, then all thay see are shades of grey. Also, if a stallion likes a grey mare when she is young will he throw her aside for a darker grey when she gets lolder?
STALLION AND MARE CHEMISTRY
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Griff,
Your above statement is a little silly. While a horse may not have the ability to reason the relative merits of a mate, Mother Nature has instilled in them a natural instinct to breed in such a way that the strength of the species will be maintained. Its simple survival of the fittest with the most attractive mates being those which are the most adapted to the environment. While it may not translate to breeding racehorse, there is plenty of evidence that animals in the wild practice natural selection. Reasoning is overrated anyways look at the humans its wasted on.
Your above statement is a little silly. While a horse may not have the ability to reason the relative merits of a mate, Mother Nature has instilled in them a natural instinct to breed in such a way that the strength of the species will be maintained. Its simple survival of the fittest with the most attractive mates being those which are the most adapted to the environment. While it may not translate to breeding racehorse, there is plenty of evidence that animals in the wild practice natural selection. Reasoning is overrated anyways look at the humans its wasted on.
I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
When when I said "Horses care about blah blah blah" I was lazily stealing a metaphor from Skeenan without noting in what figurative sense it was true. Sorry.
It's not so much that the Horse "Cares" about anything as that the Horse is instinctively attracted more to other horses with compatible genes in the same way that a Horse is instinctively attacted to other Horses as opposed to Zebras, Moo-Cows, or whatever.
I'm not saying the Horse has any idea what it's doing... But practically speaking the lack of concious choice means very little.
-llbean
It's not so much that the Horse "Cares" about anything as that the Horse is instinctively attracted more to other horses with compatible genes in the same way that a Horse is instinctively attacted to other Horses as opposed to Zebras, Moo-Cows, or whatever.
I'm not saying the Horse has any idea what it's doing... But practically speaking the lack of concious choice means very little.
-llbean
do you actually believe a stallion will instinctively avoid mating with it's daughter?
Also, horses will willingly mate with zebras, donkeys, asses and so forth. . If you don't believ it but a jack in with your mares and see what happens.
Lastly, if horses do so much better choosing their mates than man why are the wild horse bands made up of such sorry specimens?
griff
Also, horses will willingly mate with zebras, donkeys, asses and so forth. . If you don't believ it but a jack in with your mares and see what happens.
Lastly, if horses do so much better choosing their mates than man why are the wild horse bands made up of such sorry specimens?
griff
"We has met the enemy and he is us" [Pogo]
griff wrote:do you actually believe a stallion will instinctively avoid mating with it's daughter?
In the wild, yes (incest avoidance isn't that unsual in the natural world, you know)...
Also, horses will willingly mate with zebras, donkeys, asses and so forth. . If you don't believ it but a jack in with your mares and see what happens.
I'm sorry, I should have just used the analogy of them not being attacted to moo-cows; it isn't all that unusual for them to mate with other equids.
Lastly, if horses do so much better choosing their mates than man why are the wild horse bands made up of such sorry specimens?
That is a good point, though I must point out that Wild Horse Bands don't get the kind of Nutrient Rich diet domesticated horses get and if the tables were turned, who is to say the domesticated horses wouldn't starve to death trying to feed their rich oily coats and nice looking muscles?
For this reason I think we must consider the enviroment when deciding whether or not to call a horse a sorry specimen...
Still, I think there's some very real truth to what you say here about wild horses as against domesticated horses. After all, the level of competition we make a male Thoroughbred Horse go through merely to breed is a much more exacting standard than ANYTHING the wild would force a stallion to go through.
Still, within the rubick of Human Guidance, there may be some virtue to letting a stallion choose which amongst a group of mares selected for good conformational traits and good pedigrees to cover and which not to (as that Japanese Farm is doing thanks to neccessity with War Emblem).
Do you have a high level of confidence that War Emblem's descisions as a self-regulating breeder will not turn out well??
I wouldn't be surprised to see him fail, but I'd still view his vindication as a distinct possibilty.
-llbean
BTW, I should note that part of the reason I'm acting like Horses could do Horse Breeding better than Humans is because I think a LOT of Human Horse Breeders don't know what they're doing and/or just breed randomly.
For instance, if someone has a big racemare they'll send her to Storm Cat whether or not there's ANY reason to suspect there's any conformational affinity or genetic affinity between the stallion and mare.
There's more to breeding than just breeding the best to the best; as all the failed foals of top racemares sired by stallions chosen without any meaningful thought attests.
-llbean
For instance, if someone has a big racemare they'll send her to Storm Cat whether or not there's ANY reason to suspect there's any conformational affinity or genetic affinity between the stallion and mare.
There's more to breeding than just breeding the best to the best; as all the failed foals of top racemares sired by stallions chosen without any meaningful thought attests.
-llbean
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louis finochio
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Great breeders became great breeders because they did their research and bred to those breeding successful breeding patterns and crosses that were positive.
For a TB breeder to stay on top year after year they must add new bloodstock and cull their mares and stallions that are not producing the goods.
When I first started researching TB Nicking Patterns I researched E.P. Taylor ala Windfield Farms and I found he used mares from the sire line of (Teddy) to consistently produce his superior runners.
When I researched Leslie Coombs Spendthrift Farm I found he used many sire lines to raise him to the top of leading breeders.
Leslie Coombs like the nicking patterns research I was doing and gave me an endorsement on my book.
For a TB breeder to stay on top year after year they must add new bloodstock and cull their mares and stallions that are not producing the goods.
When I first started researching TB Nicking Patterns I researched E.P. Taylor ala Windfield Farms and I found he used mares from the sire line of (Teddy) to consistently produce his superior runners.
When I researched Leslie Coombs Spendthrift Farm I found he used many sire lines to raise him to the top of leading breeders.
Leslie Coombs like the nicking patterns research I was doing and gave me an endorsement on my book.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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roving boy
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To avoid the discussion of horses' caring about anything other than the big 3 drives of all animals (food, water and sex), I thought I would return to Meadowlake's personal fondness for grays....
Meadowlake did not seem to distinguish between shades of gray....he liked 'em all!
The best gray offspring of Meadowlake that I know of would be Meafara (MG3SW $838,000).
Meadowlake did not seem to distinguish between shades of gray....he liked 'em all!
The best gray offspring of Meadowlake that I know of would be Meafara (MG3SW $838,000).
Roving Boy
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louis finochio
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Thnaks Roving Boy: I asked that question about Meadowlake's gray superior runners in hoping someone would take the bait and look up what you posted.
When a breeder becomes great he will research every angle and dig deeper to find the reason why those superior runners become superior runners. Many are called but few are chosen.
When a breeder becomes great he will research every angle and dig deeper to find the reason why those superior runners become superior runners. Many are called but few are chosen.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Griff, actually George Washington wrote about the jack that he was given by the King of Spain, who was reluctant to cover mares. His interest would only perk up when they brought a jenny around. Then, presto chango, and George got his mules.
If anyone cares to look into the effects of inbreeding in a human population, not incest, just a small gene pool, there was an article in the New York Times recently about a doctor whose career was shaped by the high incidence of certain birth defects, some of them quite nasty, amongst the Moravians and Amish. Whatever instinct should be protecting them, in this case a rigid cultural bias against marrying outside their group is overriding it.
There are lots of fairly well documented cases of horses self selecting for type, like Exmoor ponies. But behavior that functions in a free-ranging herd is unlikely to be as strong in a barn-raised horse.
If anyone cares to look into the effects of inbreeding in a human population, not incest, just a small gene pool, there was an article in the New York Times recently about a doctor whose career was shaped by the high incidence of certain birth defects, some of them quite nasty, amongst the Moravians and Amish. Whatever instinct should be protecting them, in this case a rigid cultural bias against marrying outside their group is overriding it.
There are lots of fairly well documented cases of horses self selecting for type, like Exmoor ponies. But behavior that functions in a free-ranging herd is unlikely to be as strong in a barn-raised horse.