Mtoto

austique · Postby **austique** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:55 pm

Can anybody share some thoughts on him as a sire?

Ruffian · Postby **Ruffian** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:15 pm

I am a big fan of Mtoto, he gets good stock but they are very late maturers, which in some cases mean the horses just aren't given a chance as they only start getting going around 4 (I am speaking very generalised & in my own opinions here)

However he has gotten classic horses.
Are you looking at a mare by him? or youngstock?

He also gets big horses (hand and hand with the late maturers) my mare is about 16.3 and identical to her sire albeit she has 3 socks as opposed to his 2.

austique · Postby **austique** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:32 pm

One of my mares is out of a daughter of Mtoto and I noticed physically she takes more after him than her sire. Her dam had two full sisters by him as well one of whom was a stakes producer here in the States. I was just curious as to what works well with his bloodline and what characteristics are common with his stock.

Thanks for the info Ruffian! Anything else you have to share about him would be greatly welcome.

erins isle · Postby **erins isle** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:35 pm

Mtoto is a strong, solid horse to look at, but I love the Busted offspring. They mature late, but they are strong and go on for ever. Mtoto was a good horse at 3, but reached his top at four. Good pedigree from damside: Amazer: winner at 2 in France, Granddam Alzara placed in Lingfield Oaks trial and Park Hill Stakes, her dam Zabara won 1000 Guineas and was placed in the Oaks. Quite old lines we see here, Alycidon, Relic and Donatello. And where is the ND-blood? Nowhere!
Don't understand me wrong, ND was a great stallion, but sometimes it is quite useful if your horse isn't overloaded with that blood.

saintlyCZ · Postby **saintlyCZ** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:34 pm

I also love that sire line. From what I've read or seen... Everything here is right, naturally. Late maturing horses and so on... But also the fact is that these horses are rock solid. It's a kind of blood I would love to have in my broodmare band, because it's really the blood you can work with. Healthy horses who can run and carry great genes. Mtoto horses combined with some top lines... Wonderful.

But back to facts. I saw some of his races and although he was so late maturing horse, in his top form he was breathtaking. One of the most impressive horses I've ever seen... I don't remember much races of Darley stallions, but the two I remember are Starborough - and Mtoto.

And although Shaamit wasn't a big success, the one stallion I love is his son, Bollin Eric. Perfect conformation - man would say an old-fashioned body type, and also very elegant. VERY MUCH ELEGANT! I sent his photo to my friend orientated to warmblood breeding. And although she doesn't like much thoroughbred stallions, her reply was: "Oh my God, who's that horse? I wouldn't be affraid to send any mare to him!" You can believe that it's the biggest compliment to any thoroughbred I've ever heard from her :wink:

Anyway. Good luck with your mare, I'd love to have one with similar pedigree too!

-sai-

Derring · Postby **Derring** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:05 pm

Ruffian wrote:
He also gets big horses (hand and hand with the late maturers) my mare is about 16.3 and identical to her sire albeit she has 3 socks as opposed to his 2.

So big horses are usually late maturers and distance runners. Can you give some examples of successful distance runners that didn't race as 2 and 3 year olds?

In the spring, I'm breeding my (speed type) mare to a stallion that's 17 hands.

saintlyCZ · Postby **saintlyCZ** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:06 pm

derring: you wanted to say "distance runners that didn't race as 2 and 3 year olds"? Doesn't give too much sense to me, I'd say that more logic would be question "distance runners that DID race as 2 and 3 year olds"?
Anyway, both types can be easily found. Both Nijinsky and Secretariat were very successful at two and were able to get the distance a year later. I suppose it's not needed to comment in which way they did it... :wink:

The distance runner who didn't race at 2 was e.g. Tiznow, although only thanks to circumstances. He started in May of his three year old career, but reached his peak form just somewhere around Super Derby / Breeders' Cup. However, if you compare his photos from trainings to BC 2000 and 2001, on the first you can see horse with a kind of half a foal mechanics of moving, and on the second matured, fantastically balanced horse. And although he has never raced longer than 10 furlongs, he certainly was the horse who would have no problem going some more furlongs...

and BTW - Bollin Zola was successful at listed and graded level over 5 and 6 furlongs at two, and one of her daugthers was the same type. Bollin Eric, Bollin Zola's son and Mtoto's grandson (as was mentioned), was two-time champion stayer. Good luck with your breeding politics.
-sai-

Nessa · Postby **Nessa** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:36 pm

Azeri didn't start her race career until she was a four year old.

Derring · Postby **Derring** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:33 pm

saintlyCZ wrote:derring: you wanted to say "distance runners that didn't race as 2 and 3 year olds"? Doesn't give too much sense to me, I'd say that more logic would be question "distance runners that DID race as 2 and 3 year olds"?
Anyway, both types can be easily found. Both Nijinsky and Secretariat were very successful at two and were able to get the distance a year later. I suppose it's not needed to comment in which way they did it...
The distance runner who didn't race at 2 was e.g. Tiznow, although only thanks to circumstances. He started in May of his three year old career, but reached his peak form just somewhere around Super Derby / Breeders' Cup. However, if you compare his photos from trainings to BC 2000 and 2001, on the first you can see horse with a kind of half a foal mechanics of moving, and on the second matured, fantastically balanced horse. And although he has never raced longer than 10 furlongs, he certainly was the horse who would have no problem going some more furlongs...

and BTW - Bollin Zola was successful at listed and graded level over 5 and 6 furlongs at two, and one of her daugthers was the same type. Bollin Eric, Bollin Zola's son and Mtoto's grandson (as was mentioned), was two-time champion stayer. Good luck with your breeding politics.
-sai-

I'm afraid that I'm not clear sometimes---sorry!

No, I was looking for distance runners that did NOT race as 2 or 3 year olds.......like the above post on Azeri and your own on Tiznow.
I was asking about horses that mature late.
Thanks!

Retrospectiv · Postby **Retrospectiv** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:59 am

Nessa wrote:Azeri didn't start her race career until she was a four year old.

Azeri was 2 for 2 as a 3 yr old.

saintlyCZ · Postby **saintlyCZ** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:12 pm

derring: OK, it just didn't correspond to those distance runners to me :wink:

Thanks.

And as retrospectivity rightly said, Azeri started as three year old, and what is maybe more important - was she distance runner? In my opinion she was eight to nine furlong mare. I've always thought that ten furlongs are too much for her... Anybody have the same feeling? And I don't think that nine furlongs is exactly what makes "distance runner"...

Derring · Postby **Derring** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:38 am

austique wrote:One of my mares is out of a daughter of Mtoto and I noticed physically she takes more after him than her sire. Her dam had two full sisters by him as well one of whom was a stakes producer here in the States. I was just curious as to what works well with his bloodline and what characteristics are common with his stock.

Thanks for the info Ruffian! Anything else you have to share about him would be greatly welcome.

What is your mare's name?