Turf question...

[Guest]

Hi, new here and would like some info. If ya'll can help that would be great.

Here it goes:

Why are turf races more inclined to favor the horse that comes off the pace and how does the turf surface play into this as a key role? I often see the jocks holding back their mounts to avoid the lead, Why?

One interesting note, I have seen one horse already go W2W on a turf course but it's rare.

Just love those "blanket" finishes....Thanks a mil!

[BJ]

Hi, new here and would like some info. If ya'll can help that would be great.

Here it goes:

Why are turf races more inclined to favor the horse that comes off the pace and how does the turf surface play into this as a key role? I often see the jocks holding back their mounts to avoid the lead, Why?

One interesting note, I have seen one horse already go W2W on a turf course but it's rare.

Just love those "blanket" finishes....Thanks a mil!

I think it depends on the turf course. European courses are much deeper and slower than the U.S. courses, which causes speed/front running horses to tire, unless they can set slow fractions. Sometimes, at Del Mar (in California) especially when the course has just been cut and the temporary rails are up, that course can favor speed. But generally, a horse that has a good closing kick is a better horse to bet on the turf

[Elusive City]

Horses win on turf usually with the best final fraction. you have a horse thats backs down the pace and that horse is on the front end it will win.
But horses use too much energy most of the time early in a turfer and viola closers will have the best shot.

Best illustrated with our turfer mare. Once night down at SamHouston race track in 2000 when our mare was 9. all us partners went down to see her race. we thought she might have a chance to win cause we were dropping off a good second for a 25K tag down to 18K tag. Our jock told us tonights the night. we were all happy and doubled up our bets on her.
well the gates open and two horses (longshots) come out of the gate flying 22 and change and the 45 and change. Meanwhile Itsy (itbaya)
was biding her time in the back 20 off. so far back you needed a telescope to fine her. we looked at each other and said dejectly "i guess tonight wasn't the night". Well a split second later, Itsy is moving like the second coming of Forego. she passes all the horses in about 3/8 of a mile.
and she cruises in 4 lenghths to the good. Now of course we can't believe what we just saw. and the jock mouths "I told you so" on the way back to the winners circle.

Now back up 5 years back to 1995 Itsy has been disappointing on dirt and as a last gasp she's thrown to the wolves in an allowance race on turf for her first turfer at ARlington. and she gets the 12 hole to boot. no chance, none. 50-1 on the board and probably should have been way higher. she had been showing speed and quitting on dirt. so when the gates open is no suprise that shes on top. 3/4 pole she puts the hoss who's been houndsing her away. and she inches clear. But clearly the effort and she weakens in the final furlong and finishes a close fourth. now we know what we got and our trainer tells us she's the winner the next out on turf.
well 3 weeks later. she entered under the same allowance races and again she makes the top. she clear by 3 by 5 passing the 3/4 pole she's on top by almost ten. Everyone in our partnership cant believe it. and In the stretch she's clear 8. she does weaken after those early efforts and "only" wins by 3. at 13-1. Everyone can't believe it.

so Itsy have been on both ends of it. wire jobbie and monsterous come from behind job.

[BenB]

When the turf track is is yielding or heavy and the horse is competing in his own class or is low handicapped, than I would favor a frontrunner, on
good to firm track, I like to bet the closers who are coming from off the speeed and at the outside (far) of the rail, as there is almost always a free lane to be found.
It,s something the same as hunting with a bunch of dogs on a rabbit,
the group is almost always prefereble together they are strong.

[louis finochio]

Most turf TB have an abundance of stamina in their pedigrees. That will tell you they are best to run from the back of the pack.

Those Euro TB are trained to run late and are schooled to do the same, as their turf races are not run fast early on so their TB will have a good turn of foot when coming home.

The trainers instructions to the jock will make the pace or not.

[silky sullivan]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

Being an avid racing & pedigree buff, I've developed an interest in turf racing and how it compares to the dirt. All the info I can get would be great and from what I've read so far, I have a better understanding!

Once again thanks

[Timber]

And how is Palance Intrigue doing?

[silky sullivan]

BTW-

Happy Holidays everyone, off on vacation, hope everyone has a great Holiday!

[Denise]

SS, we have all but one turfer in our string, and they are all bred and trained to go "long" on the lawn. They work on turf gallops 8-9 months a year (we're in the northeast US, so we're on winter hiatus), and by being rated well on those 2-3 mile hilly works, they learn to conserve that speed to make one good late run. Of course, it does depend on the individual race course conditions. A bit of "cut" in the ground seems to always favor closers, because as others have pointed out, the cheap early speed will die on a boggy course. We always are concerned when the early fractions are VERY slow, because that means the front runners are conserving plenty of late run, too. Pedigree is huge in turf betting, on a good turf course. My favorite is when I find a horse with Woodman, Affirmed or Alleged as a broodie sire...those can run for weeks on the grass!
It's such a shame that tracks don't invest more in maintaining their turf courses, given the huge fields, better parimutuel pools and often, big payouts.

[Elusive City]

[quote="Timber"]And how is Palance Intrigue doing?[/quote]

Just fine. sending him to oaklawn for winter training. My fingers are crossed that he makes his first start in the April/May/June time frame.