Just when you THINK you have seen and heard everything ...

[SummerLand]

Hmmm, I was looking at their page on him.

At least two of the pictures on his page CAN'T be him. They are a Light Palomino Tobiano! (The top one and the very bottom one).

http://www.lifeshighdesign.com/index.ph ... billionair

Geeze, for the price they are asking they could at least have accurate pictures! Exactly how stupid do they think people are?

[Marli]

Actually, the website has changed since the first time I viewed it. The Saddlebred pictured parked out is what threw me off! But there had been a blurb in the same caption describing the TB about the Saddlebred, but now it's completely gone.

I dunno, the entire 'package' seems too bizarre for explanation. Can't imagine anyone that would be suckered into any breeding under those guidelines, and I have to agree with the others, I wouldn't WANT to either. The stallion (IMO) offers nothing - except being blonde. I think there are other 'color' avenues one could approach to reach the same outcome.

[kimberley mine]

How about the following little gems:

When breeding maiden mares. . .If we try to breed and the mare does not except then we will charge a $500 handling fee for trying to live cover.

(emphasis mine)

Not only do they have an odd contract, their grammar is lacking.

No breeding credits shall apply if the Mare has not received the complete series of rhinopneumonitis (virus abortion) vaccinations throughout her pregnancy, and the Mare aborts due to rhinopneumonitis, in which case the Customer shall pay the entire stud fee and not be entitled to any rebreeding credits.

What on earth? Is this a standard practice? I have never heard of anything like this before. If the first shot is given at 5 months, with boosters at 7 and 9 months, what happens if the mare aborts of rhino at 8 1/2?

[kimberley mine]

How about the following little gems:

When breeding maiden mares. . .If we try to breed and the mare does not except then we will charge a $500 handling fee for trying to live cover.

(emphasis mine)

Not only do they have an odd contract, their grammar is lacking.

No breeding credits shall apply if the Mare has not received the complete series of rhinopneumonitis (virus abortion) vaccinations throughout her pregnancy, and the Mare aborts due to rhinopneumonitis, in which case the Customer shall pay the entire stud fee and not be entitled to any rebreeding credits.

What on earth? Is this a standard practice? I have never heard of anything like this before. If the first shot is given at 5 months, with boosters at 7 and 9 months, what happens if the mare aborts of rhino at 8 1/2?

[adrienne]

What on earth? Is this a standard practice? I have never heard of anything like this before. If the first shot is given at 5 months, with boosters at 7 and 9 months, what happens if the mare aborts of rhino at 8 1/2?

I don't know for sure, but I don't think it can be.

I pulled out our breeding contract (which I should know because I wrote it) LoL and there is NOTHING of the sort. To put ours together I kind smashed together the one of the university farm I worked at an the previous one here. Neither had any stipulations like that... IMO a breeding contract is more about what happens when the mare is here. It protects my bottom... it doesn't seek to get the mare owner in any way I can.

The only thing in there that nulls the LFG is if they don't preg check the mare and don't let me know either way. But even that's, honestly, flexible.

Plus, I figure if something like happens... if the mare aborts and comes back... I get to charge day-board again

As I read through the contract again and compared to to my own... I had to laugh at how many things are missing. I mean, they sure find a million ways to charge someone... but someone can ship the mare out of the country without paying for the breeding first And I for sure put in mine that the mare must be wormed and trimmed or I will do it for them. I can also refuse reproductively unsound mares. AND if my stallion dies... there are stipulations in my breeding contract for that. Hehe... they need some serious guidance. And... I don't have anything in there for returning unruly mares... because mare's tend to be unruly... maybe that's why my pricelist includes the prices of Ace and Rompun

No "Human Baggage"

PSST... they're completely unhandled and wild! Sounds GREAT... perfect way to spend $2000! I <3 euphamisms

~Adrienne

[Bates]

Wasn't there another Sport Horse breeder the pulled this stunt last year

Not quite last year unless I missed something ...

Goldhope Farm in PA did the same thing back in 1998 and 3 palomino and 1 cremello colt got their papers pulled as a result, with one of them being mine ...

Shouldn't that also say Red Fox Farm in TX? They owned the stallion and signed the breeding certificates saying that the mare was bred live cover.

[milynda]

Hi Bates! Welcome to the board.

FYI, this thread has dissolved into less than productive and soon locked thread on several other boards. So far, Pedigree Query has taken a distinctly higher road on contentious topics like this. Please let it stay that way. That's one of the reasons I joined this board.

Shouldn't that also say Red Fox Farm in TX? They owned the stallion and signed the breeding certificates saying that the mare was bred live cover.

This doesn't need to be hashed out AGAIN, but I would like to correct this:
1. Goldhope Farm owned the breedings/breeding shares in question. They did not buy them from RFF.
2. I have never denied that I signed the breeders certificates. And after the JC reviewed the circumstances surrounding the signatures, they determined no action was necessary against RFF. It was truly a learning experience in my then fledgling career and I learned it at the hand of a colored TB breeder. (surprise, surprise.)
3. No horse bred by RFF or its clients was affected by Goldhope's actions.
This only affected Goldhope's horses and clients.
4. No client of Goldhope (or any third party) took action against RFF. Goldhope attempted to entangle RFF in GH's suits and settlements against it by clients, but that was unsuccessful. Goldhope also attempted to sue the JC, which was unsuccessful.

Colored TB breeders have remained relatively civil on this board, from what I can see. I like that. I also like the questions Jorge posts and want to participate when I have something to add. I am not a frequent poster on any board.

I really have enjoyed viewing posts on this board and specifically reading the posts regarding color. By far, this board has the the best annoucements about newly found color horses and productive discussions about color horses at the track, color ID issues, and the like. Thus, I decided to join and post when a couple of topics came up that I either had first hand knowledge of or an opinion about.

It is disappointing that as soon as I post, the Goldhope-AI allegations and insinuations begin. This topic is over five years old. During this time none of these allegations or insinuations about RFF have been proven to be true. There is no reason to reinitiate an unsuccessful and slanderous PR campaign against RFF just because I have posted to a new board. I'll ask the moderator to comment regardng this situation.

Regards--
Milynda Milam[/quote]

[Marli]

Milynda,

Wow- you've got some beautiful horses! I especially like the Buckskins! Do post some pics when your foals arrive, love to see the color!

[surprisewind]

DId you notice the bit about giving 48 hours notice before collecting your mare? I've never seen that before... do they need time to find it first?

I tend to want to get MY horse when I feel like it... wouldn't five them 25 cents to breed a goat

[TrueColours]

And may *I* also say before its the last word as well on this subject from me as well.

a) RFF did NOT benefit monetarily, not by one penny, on the colt I bought from Goldhope Farm. Goldhope Farm did - 100%

b) Lauren Efford of Goldhope Farm signed the registration application for my colt for the Jockey Club, stating that he was not conceived via embryo transfer or Artificial Insemination when she full well knew that he was conceived in that manner

c) I was lied to repeatedly by Goldhope Farm, via email and verbally, to give me the "elusion" that her mares were, in fact, sent to Texas for breeding with emails such as:

I wanted to answer a few more of your questions... No,
unfortunately, I had to send the Mares to Texas to be bred to Glitter
Please... by the way, what do you think of his pedigree? What mare lines would cross well on him? I am new into this sort of thing, although I have been breeding successful show hunters for many years...

and:

Both mares are bred back... which is amazing considering the heat in Texas when they were there... I hope for a filly or two next year so I can keep one! Hopefully cremello... Have a great weekend... Lauren

and then:

At the time, having never owned a TB or bred one, I did not understand the consequences of shipping semen and AI in TB’s

Right. So why sign the *4* registration applications stating all 4 colts were live covered when they werent, and why lie about sending the mares to Texas at all? If you truly didnt know that AI was a problem in TB foals, why the need to lie and SAY that you sent them to Texas to be bred???

And then - lo and behold - this from Lauren as well:

Speaking of Ocala....my old haunting grounds.....
PS- anyone know an e-mail address for T- Square stud or know my old friend Adam Parker that is/was broodmare manager there?? Lauren

and the best one of all:

From: EQUUSVET

Thanks for your comments... I actually have found that the best way IMHO) which I must have failed to describe accurately on my post) is that the foal is in a very safe enclosure...locked away but over a fence from the mare, so she can see him, and knows that he is ok... But he is nowwhere near the stallion. I used to do a lot of TB breeding in Ocala...and that always worked best, and no chance of foal being hurt... ( horse wire fence with board on top- see through but safe). I know many foals and mares that would go crazy being separated, and would not want to risk that myself...Lauren

So - you tell me new member *Bates*. Which story was the correct one here?

Lauren Efford that DIDNT know anything about TB breeding and made a legitimate mistake or Lauren Efford that DID know a lot about TB breeding and simply lied?

As is usually the case, there is usually WAY more information out there and now you have some more information to form your opinion as to what exactly went on in this situation, 7+ years ago ...

[Roguelet]

This is obviously a hot topic that several people have good, first hand information about. I've been asked my opinion by a few people on posting regarding this topic, and will post my general opinion under a new thread as it really doesn't follow the topic here.

I will say that anyone with accurate information to share about this issue should be allowed to do so, but not at the expense of our other posters. This is the type of thing that people will have very heated and strong opinions about, especially if it in some way affected them directly. If everyone will just post their information in a non-accusatory manner and NOT post and re-post emotional responses, this thread should be productive and shouldn't break any forum rules. If this thread becomes a personal battle ground, it will have to be deleted and/or locked.

[summerhorse]

Until I went to that page I had forgotten that RFF had anything to do with Glitter Please. That was the first mention at all of RFF, nothing negative has been said about them. GHF however is certainly and deservedly been pointed out to be at fault in this clear case of fraud.

What I am curious about is why the heck didn't she just send the mares to be covered live? Too cheap?

[JCBloodstock]

Hey all,just a bit to add on this stallion contract.I myself have been breeding horses for 30 years and I've seen a ton of contracts.I've never had it happen to me but I did have a client about 6 years ago get his stallion contract thrown out of court(in a $350,000 liability lawsuit) because of the simple reason that he thought he'd save money by using a contract out of a horse legal forms book.The contract was squeaky clean except for the fact that all state law's differ and if you don't have a licensed lawyer check the contract for you it's basically a worthless piece of paper if it ever goes to court.Hope this helps someone.Jeff

[Bates]

I didn't mean to start anything, it just struck me as wrong that with one farm named, the other was not named as well.

I think I'll go back to being a lurker...