I'm not sure how to explain this... but my filly doesn't seem to know how to be a horse. She's convinced anything and everything is out to get her. She has her good days and her not-so-good days, and we made a lot of progress with her training.
Winter break from college started, and made my daily (or almost daily) training sessions impossible since I live over an hour away and don't have a car (or a permit, but that's irrelevant). She always sees me every 3-5 days, but lately, it seems as if she's been holding a huge grudge against me for not seeing her almost every day.
Today, I went into the indoor arena where she was turned out. Normally she just follows me, but today decided to aim a kick at my head, and only missed by a few inches. I almost had a heart attack when the arena doors wouldn't budge, even though they were unlocked.
I later found out that the barn owner tries to chase her away from the doors using a lunge whip (even knowing that I'd just gotten her over her fear of the lunge whip), and that my horse reacts to the barn owner by rushing at the doors, rearing, and then wheeling around and either kicking at them or running a short distance from them and repeating the process.
It would explain her reaction (since I was carrying a lunge whip, but not using it) but still, now I have a horse who's learned a dangerous behavior and in the 4 days I hadn't seen her, learned how to be barn sour again. As a result, I decided not to lunge her or free lunge her, just because without any respect for the human, it'd be dangerous working with her in that situation, with or without a training aid, even though I've never used a whip against her.
It's almost like the combination of her barn not turning her out and the owner snapping the lunge whip at her erased the progress we'd made before boarding her there. Any creative ideas (like, how not to get hurt?) I was going to hire a trainer, but all the ones I've seen watching her are under estimating her attitude. I know she's young and has issues, but I'm trying really hard to keep everyone safe and prevent her from being so aggressive and rude. It's the first time I've had any major trouble with her since the very end of September, and that was back when she'd rear constantly and bolt anytime anyone handled her.
Long, detailed post... creative ideas needed!
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, madelyn
Long, detailed post... creative ideas needed!
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
No, your filly does know exactly how to be a horse & she is acting just like one. You want her to behave in a manner acceptable to human beings. Besides learning "human" manners, it sounds as though there is great issue with her boarding situation. You have a lot of changes that need made! Both in ground training, & quite possibly in where you board at. This filly needs more hands on training-at least for the time being, until she learns & retains behaviour acceptable to humans. Good luck to you, & I hope you make some good decisions.
I adopted her knowing she had a lot of issues and training needed. I moved her to that barn because when I visited, their horses (and their boarder's) were relaxed and well taken care of. They said they didn't mind handling horses with human problems, and that they'd cooperate with my wishes including turnout. Well, obviously they're not, and tomorrow I'm checking out a new place to keep her.
Only, since her previous owners let their vet chase her onto the trailer with a broom, and there hasn't been a trailer around to train her to load onto, the vet thinks we should use a tranq to load her so that she doesn't hurt herself or anyone. I just want to ship her to a different barn without anyone getting hurt, but I'm apprehensive because the vet warned that some horses are allergic to them.
Back to the mare. She seems fine being led and handled and crosstied still, but I need to get her back to respecting people. I'll be back in college in about a week, so I'll be seeing her pretty much every day to work on her training and guarantee that she gets turned out and that no one messes with her like that again.
As Madelyn noticed, she hadn't been handled much prior to me adopting her. She hasn't been started or broken, and hasn't ever had anyone on her back. In the last month, she's returned to the ideal weight and she's let the farrier work on her if I ask her to stand quietly. She has no problem with the vet either. Her feet are looking a lot better, although we discovered a bruise from being incorrectly trimmed two and a half months ago.
We've made so much progress, but I'm almost at a wits end how to undo all the bad stuff she's learned when I'm not around. She was also handled roughly before I got her. The farrier okayed starting her lungework back up, but quite honestly, I'm worried that she going to try to attack someone again. I don't know how to undo what the people at the barn did. It's hard to tell what she's going to do, she has a willing attitude and a nice soft eye one second, and the next second, she's back to being unpredictable without an apparent trigger..
Oh, and remember how her previous owner said her ankle injury was soft tissue only? Well, her new farrier says that he found calcification around the area, and that it was a lot like an osselet or ringbone, only higher up on the leg and in the joint. He says she should be fine free jumping and stuff, but says although she SHOULD stay sound, she might not with weight on her back. I guess only time will tell.
She's sound enough to resume lounging, but I need to figure out how to lounge her without getting hurt in the process. When I was first working with her, she started to trust me by working with me in the round pen. I just wish it was accessible in wintertime... and I'm working on getting the right trainer in to work with us. She used to be great at lunging...
I'm hoping with the right barn management that her training doesn't get undone everytime I'm gone. She'd stopped biting and nipping at people, until they started to hand feed her treats and letting her almost knock them over to get them. She'd stopped being afraid of lunge whips, until the incidents where the barn manager smacked them close to her face on the arena doors and now the horse thinks it's okay to try to attack both the doors and anyone holding the whip.
She needs her manners back, and I'm willing to make sure it happens. I will be changing her boarding situation accordingly and now that she's sound, starting up her loungework again. At least she hasn't regressed with some of her other training... I wish I could convince her that no one's going to hurt her or use her fear against her and that she can trust other people too.
Thanks again...
Only, since her previous owners let their vet chase her onto the trailer with a broom, and there hasn't been a trailer around to train her to load onto, the vet thinks we should use a tranq to load her so that she doesn't hurt herself or anyone. I just want to ship her to a different barn without anyone getting hurt, but I'm apprehensive because the vet warned that some horses are allergic to them.
Back to the mare. She seems fine being led and handled and crosstied still, but I need to get her back to respecting people. I'll be back in college in about a week, so I'll be seeing her pretty much every day to work on her training and guarantee that she gets turned out and that no one messes with her like that again.
As Madelyn noticed, she hadn't been handled much prior to me adopting her. She hasn't been started or broken, and hasn't ever had anyone on her back. In the last month, she's returned to the ideal weight and she's let the farrier work on her if I ask her to stand quietly. She has no problem with the vet either. Her feet are looking a lot better, although we discovered a bruise from being incorrectly trimmed two and a half months ago.
We've made so much progress, but I'm almost at a wits end how to undo all the bad stuff she's learned when I'm not around. She was also handled roughly before I got her. The farrier okayed starting her lungework back up, but quite honestly, I'm worried that she going to try to attack someone again. I don't know how to undo what the people at the barn did. It's hard to tell what she's going to do, she has a willing attitude and a nice soft eye one second, and the next second, she's back to being unpredictable without an apparent trigger..
Oh, and remember how her previous owner said her ankle injury was soft tissue only? Well, her new farrier says that he found calcification around the area, and that it was a lot like an osselet or ringbone, only higher up on the leg and in the joint. He says she should be fine free jumping and stuff, but says although she SHOULD stay sound, she might not with weight on her back. I guess only time will tell.
She's sound enough to resume lounging, but I need to figure out how to lounge her without getting hurt in the process. When I was first working with her, she started to trust me by working with me in the round pen. I just wish it was accessible in wintertime... and I'm working on getting the right trainer in to work with us. She used to be great at lunging...
I'm hoping with the right barn management that her training doesn't get undone everytime I'm gone. She'd stopped biting and nipping at people, until they started to hand feed her treats and letting her almost knock them over to get them. She'd stopped being afraid of lunge whips, until the incidents where the barn manager smacked them close to her face on the arena doors and now the horse thinks it's okay to try to attack both the doors and anyone holding the whip.
She needs her manners back, and I'm willing to make sure it happens. I will be changing her boarding situation accordingly and now that she's sound, starting up her loungework again. At least she hasn't regressed with some of her other training... I wish I could convince her that no one's going to hurt her or use her fear against her and that she can trust other people too.
Thanks again...
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
I don't know how much experience you have working with difficult/dangerous horses etc. I would ONLY suggest this if you are experienced. Anyway, you might want to try a 30 day tranq. with the filly (or even a half dose). She would be able to 'chill out' a bit and not be so overreactive all the time. Because of that she would be able to learn new things a lot easier. HOWEVER, you must teach her some good ground manners (or have someone else do that for you).
Anyway, you might want to try a 30 day tranq. with the filly (or even a half dose).
I didn't know that was possible, but it sounds like a good idea just to get her to relax a tad. Any particular brand of tranq that you'd recommend so I can ask my vet about it? Except for that incident yesterday, I really haven't had any problems handling her although in September it was was interesting starting to train her... our first two days consisted of me teaching her it's okay to be scared of something, but that she doesn't need to bolt or trample anyone to accomplish it... and that the air should be left to birds and other aerial species. I always felt bad because at the college, we were required to always use chains over their nose (as opposed to under their chin)
and I noticed a lot of the barn workers shanked her roughly everytime she was afraid of something or even minorly misbehaving instead of gently correcting her. I'm a VERY patient person, and training is rewarding although time consuming, but worth every minute 
[/quote]"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
I used to do foster care for two of the tb rescue/adoption groups. They sent me some nut cases from time to time. These were horses much worse off mentally than your filly is.
Sounds like your horse is telling you how much she dislikes where she is currently boarded. It's a good idea that you are moving her.
The reserpine is a GREAT idea. A good rule of thumb is no one gets hurt.
I have used reserpine quite a bit. Awesome drug, just takes the nervous edge off the horse without making her/him sleepy. Just make sure you give it in three or more doses because it can cause loose stool if given too quickly. Luckily it is given in the muscle, not IV, so just about anyone can give it without a vet.
As for her re-training, Don't turn your back on her. For the next month or so, always make her face you when you are together, even if that means keeping her on a lead rope. Her kick was meant to hurt you...she is mad and doesn't have the maturity just to poop in her water bucket or something less dangerous. When you go into her stall even, clip a rope on her halter and make her stay facing you at all times. Make her come with you to the door, too, when leaving her stall. Even when grooming, try to take someone with you so they can actually hold her head while you groom.
This is gentle re-enforcement of proper behavior. Besides showing her you are aware she may challenge your authority, you are telling her that it is improper to point her most dangerous weapon at you. You are acting as boss mare and insisting she stay mannerly. She may try to bite, here and there in frustration, but be ready for it and scold her like her dam would have done. Her manners will improve, it's almost guarenteed.
If she has been physically abused in the past, you are dealing with two obstacles. Instinct and fear. Every horse deals with instinct....Instinct as she is trying to see if you are a qualified leader for your two member herd...if she thinks you aren't then she will challenge for the position.
But the fear is a whole new story. Someone planted in her brain that humans aren't qualified leaders. Some people might think that jumping all over a horse for each minor infraction is the best way to retrain. If you do that, you are just re-enforcing the idea that you are not a good leader; horses in a herd don't do that. Each offense is taken seperatly.
The kick was a major offense, though. The time to disapline for it was within three seconds of the kick. So you just have to move on, don't give her oppurtunity to kick again. SHE has to understand that you are not giving her the oppurtunity.
Sorry if I rambled.
Sounds like your horse is telling you how much she dislikes where she is currently boarded. It's a good idea that you are moving her.
The reserpine is a GREAT idea. A good rule of thumb is no one gets hurt.
I have used reserpine quite a bit. Awesome drug, just takes the nervous edge off the horse without making her/him sleepy. Just make sure you give it in three or more doses because it can cause loose stool if given too quickly. Luckily it is given in the muscle, not IV, so just about anyone can give it without a vet.
As for her re-training, Don't turn your back on her. For the next month or so, always make her face you when you are together, even if that means keeping her on a lead rope. Her kick was meant to hurt you...she is mad and doesn't have the maturity just to poop in her water bucket or something less dangerous. When you go into her stall even, clip a rope on her halter and make her stay facing you at all times. Make her come with you to the door, too, when leaving her stall. Even when grooming, try to take someone with you so they can actually hold her head while you groom.
This is gentle re-enforcement of proper behavior. Besides showing her you are aware she may challenge your authority, you are telling her that it is improper to point her most dangerous weapon at you. You are acting as boss mare and insisting she stay mannerly. She may try to bite, here and there in frustration, but be ready for it and scold her like her dam would have done. Her manners will improve, it's almost guarenteed.
If she has been physically abused in the past, you are dealing with two obstacles. Instinct and fear. Every horse deals with instinct....Instinct as she is trying to see if you are a qualified leader for your two member herd...if she thinks you aren't then she will challenge for the position.
But the fear is a whole new story. Someone planted in her brain that humans aren't qualified leaders. Some people might think that jumping all over a horse for each minor infraction is the best way to retrain. If you do that, you are just re-enforcing the idea that you are not a good leader; horses in a herd don't do that. Each offense is taken seperatly.
The kick was a major offense, though. The time to disapline for it was within three seconds of the kick. So you just have to move on, don't give her oppurtunity to kick again. SHE has to understand that you are not giving her the oppurtunity.
Sorry if I rambled.
My heart belongs to Our Mims, 1977 three year old filly champion, March 8, 1974- December 9, 2003
Thanks so much for your reply! I'm looking forward to today... once my ride get here, we're checking out the new barn (about an hour away), stopping at the tack shop (time for a jolly ball and one of the stall toys she liked that was on another horse's stall) to prevent boredom and a mineral block just to make double sure that wood chewing isn't from a mineral deficiency (but I doubt it, she's on SafeChoice 14% protein...), and then off to a town about 15 minutes from that barn to visit Magic and Joey's owners (and maybe ride!), and then off to the barn the filly's at to ride two other horses (Sugar and a Morgan gelding whose name I can't remember since his owner never mentioned his name)! My vet said they'd call tomorrow morning, I'm trying to schedule her to get microchipped, her January wormer, and the tranq's for shipping and then the 28 or 30 day one
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"
Very sound advice above. Remember, if you give an inch you have left yourself open for her to TAKE A MILE. When I got shipped in a colt who was so ornery and not broke to lead (he would rear, lunge, strike, etc. etc.) I tied him up very short in his stall. Brushed the hell out of him. Strapped on a surcingle. Ran side reins from the halter down between his legs to the center ring on the girth of the surcingle. Set his head just below his shoulder. LED HIS ASS ALL THE WAY AROUND THE PROPERTY. Took off the side reins. He reared. Put the side reins back on and did the same things till he was quiet as a mouse with no side reins. Took an hour. The colt NEVER acted that way again.
Stop thinking about your relationship as human -- horse. Start thinking of yourself as an ALPHA MARE and her as just a filly...
I doubt very much her behavior stems from abuse. In my experience abused horses will usually avoid human contact altogether and would, under no circumstances, be so aggressive as to kick at someone.
Stop thinking about your relationship as human -- horse. Start thinking of yourself as an ALPHA MARE and her as just a filly...
I doubt very much her behavior stems from abuse. In my experience abused horses will usually avoid human contact altogether and would, under no circumstances, be so aggressive as to kick at someone.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
I totally agree with madelyn. The filly should see you as the 'alpha mare'. It can take unhandled/not properly trained horses some time to adjust to you being the 'alpha horse' at all times. However, once the horse gets used to it they usually like it! Because being with the 'alpha animal/person' also means safety, guidance, security etc.
Do you understand what I am trying to say?
Do you understand what I am trying to say?
Yes, and I agree with everyone who's posted. I really need to find a new boarding situation... the barn I visited today (which I really liked), just called and said they were going to refund the full month's payment I gave them today because they said they didn't have a stall anymore (but I paid for the month when the stall was open, so IDK what went on there, I suppose I'll find out when I go to pick up the money...).
Apparently the barn she's at had their trainer go into her stall and they said that he said she'd been severely abused. I've watched him train his horses and other horses and am going to call him today or tomorrow to find out more about what he assessed.
I handled her today after I rode Sugar, no problems. She got really jealous when I was tacking up my friend's mare and started freaking out in her stall when she saw me with her. She quieted down quickly though. I brushed her while she was crosstied and handled her feet, belly, ears, and everything in between.
Tomorrow the vet's going to call me back about the tranq (for shipping once I find a barn, and possibly the 30 day one), microchipping, and going over her worming schedule.
I'm off to talk to that trainer... *crosses fingers* maybe he could teach me more... I could def. learn more and maybe even have him work with my horse.
Apparently the barn she's at had their trainer go into her stall and they said that he said she'd been severely abused. I've watched him train his horses and other horses and am going to call him today or tomorrow to find out more about what he assessed.
I handled her today after I rode Sugar, no problems. She got really jealous when I was tacking up my friend's mare and started freaking out in her stall when she saw me with her. She quieted down quickly though. I brushed her while she was crosstied and handled her feet, belly, ears, and everything in between.
Tomorrow the vet's going to call me back about the tranq (for shipping once I find a barn, and possibly the 30 day one), microchipping, and going over her worming schedule.
I'm off to talk to that trainer... *crosses fingers* maybe he could teach me more... I could def. learn more and maybe even have him work with my horse.
"The best things in life are worth waiting for"