I will follow Flashy Bull all the way.

[wilf]

I realise that Derek and Ron are shining in the lead-up races to the Derby but I will blindly follow the boards only true horse to follow because he was an object of our fascination since late March 95 as a 2yr old sales graduate. Since then he has done nicely and after his winter break has made steady improvement and although he carries his head a little high and is slightly drawn in appearance I feel that he is moving forward,his effort in the Fountain was commendable and if he goes north to the Kentucky loam tracks perhaps he will be more comfortable. If I trained him he would be in my bed while I slept in the bath. Good night and good luck.!

[mikec]

Good luck...I'm all over him in the derby pools !

[Shammy Davis]

Wilf: I like him too, but Corinthian was all over the place. I think he has the most room to improve. As far as the pools are concerned, the morningline odds improved to much for me to make a bet this early.

[Whirlaway]

No doubt Flashy Bull is a class horse and I consider him one of the best of this crop. I liked him in the Holy Bull and had him at the top in the FOY. He has shown the ability to run with the best, but three things:

a) he doesn't like the lead.
b) he can't pass the leader.
c) he knows he's second best.

I think C. There is a pecking order amongst these animals and I think he knows he is not quite as good as the horse he is tracking.

[Richard]

I liked Flashey Bull from a race at Aquaduct, he was in the pack and just
looked so game threading through, that I noticed him, and that he was from Holy Bull, who I did hot like, even though I should have. Holy Bull was a front runner, I hate front runners in classic races. Exception Dr, Fager, who is back in this line, but Holy Bull just never did it for me.
Flashey Bull does, here we are, march- april = may 28 days between races, need graded earnings, comeing to peek. Yah I like Flashey Bull.

Richard

[wilf]

Actually Whirlaway I see him at about 3 or 4 lengths behind the serious runners as far as ability. I just root for him as the board horse as he was the very first 2yr old to gain mention on a quite in-depth thread starting almost 12 months ago. However as a hands on trainer of many years I see a horse that has been wound up for a LONG time and he does not carry much beef. He never seems comfortable in a race , his head is high and his frame is tight. I notice on the worksheets that he never works very far or fast, so I figure that Keiran is nursing him along to get to the big show. I see him running better in the cool spring of Kentucky and may use himself better on a wet track. Whatever happens he will still be around when many have dropped out of the race. I never take racing seriously until I see a serious horse.However its been a long time since John Henry and The Bid. The Bull is my man this campaign , whatever transpires.

[Cree]

Well I don't know how good he is compared to others, but I like watching him run because he is the forum horse! He's at least a good G2 horse.

[Whirlaway]

I like Flashy Bull and admire your statement, "The Bull is my man in this campaign, whatever happens." I think what you write is important considering you're a trainer of many years, particularly the following:

I never take racing seriously until I see a serious horse. However its been a long time since John Henry and The Bid.

That's quite a statement and one that should be given much thought. Have there been many serious horses since JH and The Bid? I never gave it much thought ... but giving it some thought, I think what you say is true, that there haven't been many serious horses since those two.

So, what does that mean with respect to all that I write and all that I have read. Is it too, meaningless? Does it mean nothing when we all write about and read about these also ran speed demons we call the classic thoroughbred?

Your post raises some interesting questions.

[petersd]

Quote:
I never take racing seriously until I see a serious horse. However its been a long time since John Henry and The Bid.

Umm - I thought Cigar was pretty good.

[louis finochio]

Flashy Bull has the ancestors of late maturing stamina which includes the following stallions.

Rough N' Tumble---The Axe II---Grey Dawn II---Lyphard---Le Fabuleux---and Wild Risk.

If the speed tires in the long Ky. Derby stretch, FB will benefit and will come on late as Giacomo did in 05.

FB has a pedigree of more stamina than speed, as his breeder was dreaming of being victorious on the 1st Saturday in May. Good Luck and have a good run on Derby Day FB.

[Shammy Davis]

I know this is Wilf's Flashy Bull thread, but Corinthian has a superb pedigree top and bottom. Did anyone count the number of Blue Hens on both tail male & female? If you believe that the mares plays the prominent role, then while you are watching out for FB you may want to keep C in your field of vision. My heart is with Corinthian because Shammy Davis ran 13th to PULPIT'S 4th in the 97 "SILVER CHARM" Derby. I was at a horse show a couple of weeks ago where my daughter was competing. In the barn office was an autographed poster of HOLY BULL and Jimmy Croll. Two perfect gentlemen, I thought. Boy, do I love racing, the connections, and the history behind it all! As for placing a bet right now. Me thinks, I'll wait until 2 MTP PS: Before anyone calls me on this. Jimmy signed the poster, not Holy Bull.

[wilf]

Wow! A thread of mine that actually invites more than 2 replies , I love it.Anyway I had hoped for some input concerning Flashys numbers and ancestors because after so long on this board I know that there are several serious pedigree academics in the mix here, far beyond my scope. I am happy with the responses to say the least and of course like many of the busier threads they tend to spawn sideways opinions which is of course the nature of any sober or passionate discourse.As far as my hints on truly great horses I simply mentioned two no-brainers. I had not forgotten Cigar however and was very fortunate to witness his final race at Woodbine on a soft fall afternoon filled with great racing.Still he does not rank with the top 20 for me , but thats another story............ Now then about this years Derby crop! I feel that so far they are a fair bunch and Flashy may be only a grade 2 type, however given the brittle nature of the modern tbred and the grind of the Triple Crown trail , who can say what we will have left come Derby Day? This time last year Giacomo was a longshot to run never mind win it all and Declan was the darling of the west coast. Also Whirlaway I do get up for the big races but I really never went out of my way to see a great horserace since Alysheba and Ferdinand ran in the Big Cap, well actually it was only a 2 hour drive at the time. I still get a rush winning a maiden race but probably because the Blacksmith, feedman, vet and van company will at last get paid.

[Shammy Davis]

Wilf: Ain't life great when all the coins are on a stretch run of a horse you really want to see win. There's no sense in taking this stuff too seriously. I'm sure great opportunity still awaits your future posts and threads. Besides, I wasn't taking anything away from Flashy Bull's pedigree. I'm a sentimental old guy and to be honest I know of no horse who has won solely on his pedigree. Look at PULPIT. He cleaned up the Lexington Stakes and was the odds on favorite for the 97 Derby. Hmmmmm, he's 4th out of field of 14, his connections claim injury, and he is retired. His stats are more impressive now and all he does is race from his stall to breeding shed. I'll bet his connections are thanking the good Lord for that injury, whatever it was. My wife bets "names." She can beat me to the bank any day of the week with her "stupid long shot names" and she doesn't know a pastern from a hock. I love her though. Someone has to be a winner in the family. I must be the weiner. Keep the threads coming. I'll read them.

[adrienne]

I for one would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a $15,000 totally non-commercial stallion get two Derby winners in a row.

I would :::LOVE::: it!

I think it would really tell the industry something about itself!

~Adrienne

[el camino]

Hey,
Holy Bull is not completely non commercial. His yearlings avg $49,532 with a med of $30,000 in 05. That's not terrible for a 15,00 stud fee. Seven sold for over $100,000. I agree he was heading in a downward trend but he is not a breed only to race sire just yet. Don't be knocking my boy like that! Looks like he will have two derby runners this year.